The City of Tacoma is considering banning smoking in apartment complexes.
Should the Government keep you from smoking in your own home?
48 Comments
Sam Morris said:
The issue at hand is not whether or not smoking is bad for the individual. The question is whether or not the government has the right to govern the decisions of the individual. This goes along the same lines as laws against homosexuality, substance use, and political activity. Government is good for managing the necessary elements of civilization, such as roads, electricity, and schools. It is oppressive thinking that believes the government will be just as effective governing individual freedoms.
Larry said:
NO, I THINK TACOMA SHOULD TRY TO FIX THE CITY AND FOCUS ON ISSUES LIKE, STREETS AND ROADS.SCHOOLS AND CRIME. HOMELESS. GET A GRIP ON WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING, INSTEAD YOUR LOOKING INTO STICKING YOUR NOSE INTO PEOPLES HOMES...
Jean Ameluxen said:
There's an old saying: "The wind can come into a man's house, but the king cannot." Government has no business in someones house unless a crimes is being committed and so far smoking is not a criminal act.
Chuck said:
The first and third comments are 100% correct.
Government is getting TOO big and concerning itself with TOO many things. It does not need to make laws dictating what people can or can't do in their own homes, as long as they are not REALLY harming others.
Government needs to step back...BIG TIME.
Christine said:
I don't see how government can mandate non-smoking in our homes, unless the home is government subsidized. However, I believe that rental owners should be able to restrict their tenants to non-smokers.
John said:
Your lead in to this story was a city was considering..."preventing homeowners from lighting up in their own living room." FYI renters are not homeowners. That being said, I believe that landlords have the right to ban smoking on/in their properties and to make this a condition of any rental contract. Government has no business doing the same unless they are the landlord. Why doesn't Tacoma just ban the sale of tobacco products within the city limits of Tacoma?
Harold Olsen said:
What we do in the privacy of our own homes, as long as what we are doing does not break the law (and smoking is legal), is our own business. Banning smoking in public places is one thing. But telling people they can not smoke in the privacy of their homes is an invasion of privacy. I do not smoke and do not allow anyone to smoke in my apartment. But, people who do smoke should be allowed to. If banning smoking in apartments goes through, then it won't be long before the government decides you can't smoke in your house either. Then they will ban other things as well.
Things like this proposed ban does not surprise me though. When he was running for president our dear President Hussein said he would dictate what we eat and drink and the type of cars we drive and his wife said that her husband would not allow us to live our lives as we had been. So, with a state as liberal was Washington is this is just an extension of his dictatorial agenda.
Don Brubaker said:
NO
but it is time to ban some officials out of our lives
Ron said:
Only if I'm on fire! Then I would definately want the government to stop me from smoking.
Fed-Up said:
Yes, Yes, Yes. They do however need to make them only for apartments and housing that are attached or within a small distance from neighbors. Also where there are restrictions on distance from buildings and smoking. They need to increase the distance as wind carries cigarette smoke a good distance.
Here is why I feel so strongly on this issue as I have firsthand experience of dealing with my rights as a non-smoker to be able to have a home where I am not exposed to, or am forced to endure others people’s cigarette smoke. One person’s freedom does impose on another’s freedom here as one person chooses to smoke in their home while another person wants a smoke free home and living environment at the same time (welcome to the lifestyle of living in an apartment). In an apartment and attached home life style these opposing freedoms do not have a middle ground that can be created as smoking is allowed even with restrictions in place. As everyone knows smoking restrictions tend not followed by many smokers and since they are not enforced by management in apartments for the most part either. Smokers live a life of feeling entitled to smoke wherever, however, and around whomever they please. Freedom you say? I say they are freedom violators who care nothing for their fellow man and only for their nasty smoking habit and a right to do as they please regardless of how it violates others freedom of breathing air that is not a health hazard (Scientifically proven with verifiable medical data to back it up).
I moved into a 3rd floor apartment almost 2 years ago and was communicated beforehand via rules & regulations handed to me that the apartment rules and regulations very clearly stated that smoking was not allowed on balconies and in common areas and if it was done in apartments? If it was done in apartments that smokeless ash trays are required to be used.
Just as you commonly find a person smoking while standing near a “NO SMOKING” sign and when you point this out to them because their cigarette smoke is blowing in your face. They act as if your being a jerk and basically either ignore you, become verbally abusive at you, or put it out with very clear agitation that you called them on their behavior that is not allowed. I can go on and on with examples here.
Well, I stayed for 6 months in this apartment before I could not tolerate the cigarette smoke any longer as it penetrated and lingered in my apartment from the many smokers in my building as almost ever balcony was used by tenants to smoke and I also believe the previous renter and that it was imbedded in the walls and the filters of the heating units. I kept windows shut, and bought box fans which I set up above every window opening and sliding door to balcony with them blowing down in a manner that created a wind barrier to help block out much of smoke. I also bought 2 top of the line expensive Hepa filter air purifiers to clean the air along with 2 filtering humidifiers as well to replace the moisture that my air purifiers as they cleaned the air. I ran these almost continuously to deal with the cigarette smoke problem and for the most part they helped a lot at much expense to me. However it did not help when other tenants smoked as it still penetrated into my apartment on a very frequent basis as the many chain smokers in connecting apartments did not choose to smoke at the same time. They alternated in such a fashion that there was hardly a break especially during the evening time when it seems smokers do their most smoking in apartment environments.
I did address with management this matter first to no avail and also with tenants who lived below me in an attempt to compromise to come up with solutions that would work for both of us. Such as asking for warning before they smoked on balcony below my balcony in summertime to allow for me to close openings near balcony. I was met with hostility and verbal language I will not repeat here.
I discovered that I have very bad allergies and may be allergic to cigarette smoke. It was very exasperating to find a way to prevent smoke from coming into my apartment as I would be sitting in my living room watching television with all of my preventive measures in play in the evening and would start having severe headaches that only happened when I smelt cigarette smoke that was entering my apartment. I also believe the seals and framework of building allowed the cigarette smoke from other apartments to seep into mine. I know this is from people smoking as I would get so frustrated that I would do a walk around building to see if it truly was due to someone smoking. Every single time I was getting a headache in my living room and I walked around to check out my theory proved true. There was always a smoker smoking on their balcony within a close manner. Not once did I have a headache like this that I was unable to find an attached neighbor smoking. Since I have left the apartment life, I do not have these headaches or smell cigarette smoke in my living space and I have been out of that apartment for over a year now. The cost of moving in and purchasing items to deal with smoke, and moving back out involved a lot of money for me that I really did not have and wish I did not have to spend it this way. I wanted to stay in the apartment and could not do so as a result of cigarette smoke in my apartment and not able to prevent this from occurring. I did extreme and above the norm methods to deal with the cigarette smoke and failed to come up with a solution that gave me a smoke free apartment to live in.
Also note that after I moved into this apartment as a result of selling my own home that I owned for 10 years. In a house that has adequate space from other homes where you are not exposed to other smoker’s inconsiderate behavior that care nothing about the affect of their cigarette smoke on people around them.
After I moved in and began to try to resolve the issue of cigarette smoke in my apartment. I later found out that the person who processed me into the apartment gave me invalid rules and regulations that even though date on regulations was very recent. It was not ones that they enforced as it was not given out to tenants yet, and even though it was from the corporate level it did not go through the process of being handed out to all tenants first. I was then given a copy of the rules and regulations that all the tenants had and was the ones being enforced. These basically had no restrictions on smoking. I would love to sue this apartment for all the money I lost dealing with this mess. Yet I don’t have the time, or money to deal with this headache.
Finally out of complete and utter exasperation of cigarette smoke penetrating my apartment and having extreme migraines from smelling it continuously in my apartment with all outside openings shut and appliances running and not stopping it from coming into my apartment finally drove me out and back into a private home where I now rent a room and do not have to endure others smoking in our around my living place.
So don't tell me that the government should not make these kinds of rules. Yes it is the same the need for laws of driving on public roads. Just as driving on public roads need to be regulated, so should smoking in compact apartments and housing structures that are attached to one another.
So, please keep the rhetoric comments of how government is violating the freedom of people and start looking at how smokers are violating the freedom of non-smokers who are forced and trapped to live in housing that is not able to keep out cigarette smoke out of their housing no matter what measures are taken by them to keep it out.
Get real folks and stop crying foul when it comes to smoker’s freedom. Take a good hard look at how non-smokers freedoms are continuously being violated by cigarette smokers not caring about where, how, and how often do they smoke or how it affects those nearby them in public, and in private homes. Smoke does not respect limits or physical boundaries and the only way to have it so is to get people to be aware with limits and restrictions that are enforced by government with penalties that will cause compliance to them.
christina v said:
So what is the next proposed ban to be? prohibit the act of nudity within the home (except when taking a shower or bath) having sex ONLY on the day that are pre-approved by the government? No,No,No, I got one...we the people will be required to keep a record on how many time we go to the bathroom in our own home (or apt) so we can be taxed on that as well.
Laura said:
I do not belive the Government needs to interfere in a persons own private home, But that is different and the smoking issues in Apartment and Government sub. housing. Smoke drifting into non smoking residence apts are very dangerous to medically impaired persons.. It is a tested fact that 2nd hand smoke is the number 3 killer of people. If people want to smoke and kill themselves. go for it, but you do have the right to kill me with your 2nd hand smoke.
People need to be accountable for their actions. and not harm others.
David Kalinoski said:
I believe if you have children you shouldn't smoke in your house anyway. But we have more important issues to deal with besides smoking bans in our private residences.
Don said:
If it is YOUR home, you should be able to do what you want, within reason, of course. A lit cigarette can and will start a fire. If there is a possibility of danger to other people or structures, there should be a smoking ban. Don't like it? Move.
Brenda Ryan said:
I usually don't comment on these things, but this is going to far. If a landlord doesn't want to rent to smokers, they have that right. The government does not have the right to sit in someone's living room monitoring their behavior. The KGB did, but I live in America don't I?
When is the government going to start going after alcohol? It kills 6+ times more people than all other drugs combined, it detrimental to other peoples health - just ask anyone hit by a drunken driver or a drunken spouse and is done in public and at times is paid for by the government. How about, to get the government out of debt, we put a $2 a bottle tax on alcohol?
Fed-Up said:
Sorry for the lengthy comment on first post. I felt it was relavent to share in such detail.
There is no such thing as total freedom to do whatever, however, and whenever behavior without limits in our world. There never has been, nor will there ever be this as a fact.
Freedom always comes with a cost of limits, and boundaries on peoples behavior. This creates true freedom versus the sick entitlement freedom that has eroded the moral fibre of our country over the years. I am 46 years old and am very analytical in my life that draws from a broad scope in my past, and reading our history along with the history of our world as I make these comments.
True freedom does not violate anothers persons freedom. So when your talking freedom. Keep this in mind.
A persons freedom will never ever ever take away the freedom of another person in any way, shape or form.
Any other way of looking at it is simply one persons sick viewpoint of their entitlement of behaving in our world in a manner that is not checked by this fact.
Think about it. Our freedom was bought at a high price and it has limits and boundaries in its foundation.
Tabitha said:
as far as I know I am the one paying the rent and until the Goverment pays my rent I can do what I want as long as it isnt against the law
Rose said:
How many more rights are they going to take away from us. They might as well through out the Privacy Act all together. What are they going to ban in our own homes next? The right to even speak? The right to cook? The right to bathe? The right to walk around nude? The right to sleep? The government needs to stay out of our personal lives when we are not breaking the law and as far as I know smoking is not against the law. There is much worse things then smoking in our homes. How are they even going to enforce this in our own homes? Will they hire a cigarette policeman to do this? Spend money where it is really needed and leave us alone in our own homes!
Fed-Up said:
There needs to be a clear boundary placed here in regards to what is being addressed.
The right to smoke a persons privately owned home that is completely separate from other homes is one issue at hand.
While paying rent in a home that is attached to other homes via interior walls and such is not a privately owned home.
There is a huge and vast difference here and is being ignored in many posts here.
A rentor is not a home owner and is not entitled to a blanket set of freedom that does whatever they please.
You can't do as you please in our nation and it is very messed up thinking to feel an entitlement to do so.
Things are addressed and changed one thing at a time. Things like smoking bans are brought up because of peoples refusal to smoke in a considerate manner and the only way to address it is in laws as the majority of smokers refuse to be considerate and to look at how their behavior is harming another person.
Being self absorbed and not caring about others is not freedom. It is very messed up thinking and is abusing the very freedom they are screaming about.
Ryan P. H. said:
At Fed-Up: I didn't bother to read all of what was said in your post, lengthy it was - especially for rhetoric. I understand the complications that living in an appartment can bring when you choose to live a smoke-free lifestyle near people who choose to smoke; been there done that.
However, a better idea would be to create a smoking section where smokers may live near each other and a smoke free section where non-smokers would live.
The Government has no right imposing laws and removing freedoms of both the private industry or the people of this nation. It's job is to find suitable compromises for everyone involved so that everyone can keep their freedoms.
Leo said:
I agree with Larry from the first few comments.
Tacoma needs to take care of there city without tring to find other ways to step the rights of the public.
If land lords make it clear they do not want renters to smoke in there buildings, fine, but don't involve city Gov. you know city gov. is dying to take away more rights of the people
Fed-up said:
As Ryan P.H. stated. I apologize for letting my personal situation with the apartment that I dealt with create a strong response that kept other solutions from being seen by me.
Your suggestion is a good one and I apologize for being so dogmatic in how I stated things.
See there are solutions. Yet how can these solutions be put into place to prevent a situation like mine as I shared in my lengthy first comment?
Thanks Ryan for redirecting me back to having a more pragmatic approach to this topic.
Becca said:
Anyone who has lived in an apartment knows that the walls are shared property. I lived in 3 apartments before I was able to buy a home, and in 2 of them the smoke from other apartments was so bad it gave me athsma attacks. If it did that to me, an otherwise healthy young adult, I can only imagine the effect it would have on children, the elderly, or people with compromised immune systems.
Thankfully, I was able to move. A neighbor of mine couldn't afford to move although she also suffered from the smoke. People should not be forced to breath secondhand smoke simply because they can't afford to move or buy a house.
The government has not only the right but the duty to step in when the air from one apartment passes into another and causes illness. At that point, smoking ceases to be a private act. If the walls are detatched, that's a different story.
grunt161 said:
With the SOCIALISTS in charge we will lose more freedoms and rights. Tacoma has more power to shred the constitution because of the socialists in office. If you voted them in, shut up, you did it to yourselves. I moved away from western WA because of the socialist ideology of the government. Get them out of office if you don't like what they are doing
Dale Paquette said:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!? I'm not even a smoker, and I think this ban is totally rediculous.
What's next? Banning people from blowing their nose on public streets? How about banning us from accidentally burning our steaks on the BBQ. Enough is enough,lets keep government OUT of our lives. NOT give them another reason to breath down our necks.
Rae Bohn said:
Is this the same government that is now charging me over $2.00 a pack for cigarettes? Where do they plan on getting their money when we all quit?
Rae Bohn said:
is this the same government that is now charging me over $2 a pack in taxes? where are they going to get their money when we all quit?
PJ said:
Isn't it amazing how "It's for your own good" has become the accepted Reason (excuse) for Big Brother to watch over us? The Means Justifies The End (it's on every dollar by the way). Does no one out there understand that when Any One Of Us loses "A Right to Privacy", for whatever reason, no matter the justification, WE ALL LOSE!!!!!! Just wait, soon parents will have to agree to have chips put in their babies "only to help prevent abduction", and it wont be a choice because "It's for your own good" will again be used. If that made you laugh you need to get off your soapbox and open your eyes.
PJ said:
Isn't it amazing how "It's for your own good" has become the accepted Reason (excuse) for Big Brother to watch over us? The Means Justifies The End (it's on every dollar by the way). Does no one out there understand that when Any One Of Us loses "A Right to Privacy", for whatever reason, no matter the justification, WE ALL LOSE!!!!!! Just wait, soon parents will have to agree to have chips put in their babies "only to help prevent abduction", and it wont be a choice because "It's for your own good" will again be used. If that made you laugh you need to get off your soapbox and open your eyes
yakdaddy said:
Welcome comrade to the USSTW the United Socialist Society of Tacoma, Washington
SShown said:
This idea holds the same merit as the Tacoma law that tickets you for letting your car idle unattended on your own property. If property owners want to restrict renters' activities, that is fine; but to try to legislate it from city hall is ludicrous. It's time to stop creating and implementing laws that penalize the majority of citizens-or even a minority-for the irresponsible actions of a few.
Christian Bob said:
As a Conservative Republican, I say ban it. Cigarettes kill people when drunk pill popping losers pass out with a cigeratte in their hand, cause a fire and innocent people die...
Ban, ban, ban. It is God's way, my way and the right way. I have the bible and America on my side, therefore, I am RIGHT, and you all are wrong!
Long live Nixon and Rush!
HELL-NO said:
TO FED-UP AND THE GOVERNMENT WE ALL HAVE RIGHTS AND IT SEEMS LIKE ALL NON SMOKERS ARE FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHT WELL YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE SMOKE AND TO CLOSE YOUR NOSE. THE GOVERNMENT FIX THE ECONOMY FINANCES AND LET US LIVE AS WE PLEASE LIKE MOST HAVE SAID UNTIL YOU PAY OUR MORTAGE THEN WE FOLLOW YOUR RULES PLEASE FIX THE BIGGER ISSUES BEFORE TRYIN TO MAKE BIGGER PROBLEMS...
gotoguy said:
When should we expect the Gestapo to come down the street? When do we get taxed for oxygen?
Sawyer said:
This is total crap to say it nicely. I can actually see people moving away from apartments because of this, I think the money spent on it in this economy is bull!!!! Cities cant even meet their budgets, but they are spend tax payer money to hire someone to see if this can be done and wastes time making the bill that cost money for thier time to do this....Way to go government, yet again another way to keep us free!
Ittisme said:
I can understand why people can be concerned in small apartments, but you control where YOU live! you know the rules of the complex before you move in, if they allow smoking in apts or not. If they do then get over it and find somewhere else to live! I own my place, I smoke but I go outside! And even though I am trying to quit this just pisses me totally OFF! Like I said, money money money...they already cant afford the ecomomy, It is my choice to pay the taxes to smoke, It is my choice to spend the money to buy them, IT IS NOT MY CHOICE TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT TELL ME WHAT AND HOW TO DO IT IN MY OWN HOME! You know I have had non smokers whine and stand by an ashtray...MOVE GO ANOTHER WAY! the choice is yours.
Russ said:
I hate to say it... But i don't think the government should have the right to tell people what they can and can not do in the privacy of their own residence. I DO think that the landlords should be able to ban smoking in their apartment building if they want. But for the government to dictate, is just wrong. Next thing you know, you can't bang the headboards with your wife after 9pm, and a limit of 12 beers in the home at one time is the new rule... Privacy is dead. Think about it!
Derrick said:
I don't think that is's ok for government or the apartment management to say that you can't smoke in the space that you are renting. Where does it end? Next they will be restricting who visits you and what hours they can visit, who you can have sex with, what type of sex, and where you can have it in your apartment. You have to draw the line somewhere.
Derrick said:
If the government decides to regulate, then they need to have a renters bill of rights. Just like the law that police have to abide by. A person has a right to a reasonable right to privacy if there is no probable cause. Do it like the airline industry with the passenger bill of rights.
livermore said:
Hey, quit the complaining. You voted them in now you have what you wished for.
Don't like it then vote them out and change the law back.
Remember, the rights of minorities are controlled by the majority (you the voters).
One creeping law at a time. Until liberals in government totally control your lives.
Fed-up said:
For those who have made comments attacking my comments.
Read what I posted well you...
I did the due diligence of making sure I moved into an apartment that had smoking restrictions that would prevent having to smell it as I did in the privacy of my own residence.
So stop whining about how no-smokers are not making choices that keeps us out of enduring anothers smoke being blown in our face.
When the bottom line is how smokers do not care one bit about being considerate in how they smoke cigarettes and its affect on people nearby.
This self absorbed entitlement attitude is what has destroyed our nation as freedom has been turned into an excuse to ram one persons choice down anothers throat such as smoking does and then have the absurdity to call it freedom.
Yes I have a choice in my life. I moved out after only 6 months and it cost me alot of money to do all that moving in a short period of time.
All because of an apartment management team that gave me rules and regulations that stated smoking would be contained in a manner that would not affect me. Then after I moved in the rules changed on me.
So don't tell me how I have choices and that my choices did whatever.
Non-smokers are not walking aroung just complaining as it seems to be percieved on many of these comments.
We are taking pro-active steps to avoid cigarette smoke as much as humanly possible.
It is when smokers choose to smoke in a manner that is impossible to avoid that is being addressed here.
Wake up and get your focus off of just YOU and broaden your viewpoint to include others.
Then maybe you will see a need for such laws as this one in an Apartment complex living situation.
Please get off your high horses about self absorbed smoking behavior being an expression of freedom.
I suppose you feel drive-by shootings are an expression of freedom as well...
yagp86
bjeffery said:
to fed-up
you are a long winded whine tit
David said:
Smoking is no different medically than shooting a gun off in public, so if it can be done safely ~~~ Why Not?
The above thought seems to be the common Liberal response and to some degree, I must admit that I agree. However if I am going to be the one at the other end of the gun ~~~ I think it is important to have some reasonable level of protection to be put in place, as in guns should never be placed in the hands of PC TruBluLiberal.
As for the Tacomca apartment smoking ban, I have never been in apartment that I could not at one time or another smell sometimes a really great dinner being cooked in the kitchen next door ... thus ... I don't want to smell or have my health adversely affected by my nieghbor's Right to Smoke as well.
BTW - What successful, intelligent and/or educated person still smokes anyway; I guess I just answered my own question, it is those that aren't who do.
I have been smoking for 15 years and i know how hard it is when you can't have a cigarette. I just recently tried this new product as an alternative to smoking when you can't have a cigarette. It actually vaporizes the nicotine, there is no smoke, no smell and no carcinogens. It tastes and feels like your smoking a cigarette, but its permitted every where smoking is not. Check the site out, It may be alittle expensive for some, but it cuts down on the amount you smoke, plus its cheaper for refills then cigarettes and stops the cravings and makes it easy. www.myinlife.com/psmegal You can also become a distributor and make a small profit while you enjoy the product. Check out the link its definately worth your time.
I have been smoking for 15 years and i know how hard it is when you can't have a cigarette. I just recently tried this new product as an alternative to smoking when you can't have a cigarette. It actually vaporizes the nicotine, there is no smoke, no smell and no carcinogens. It tastes and feels like your smoking a cigarette, but its permitted every where smoking is not. Check the site out, It may be alittle expensive for some, but it cuts down on the amount you smoke, plus its cheaper for refills then cigarettes and stops the cravings and makes it easy. www.myinlife.com/psmegal You can also become a distributor and make a small profit while you enjoy the product. Check out the link its definately worth your time.
SMOKERS STINK said:
YES,YES,YES. Im a Cancer Survivor of Throat Cancer due to 2nd hand smoke. I agree that it should be illegal. SMOKERS are very rude and have no class. I have seen so many smokers open there car doors and dump there ash trays in the road or while there driving flick there nasty, stinky cigarette butts out. Cigarette should be taxed to the limit. They should cost 20 bucks a pack or more. I would rather eat dog poop than kiss a smoker. One of the worset smells i have ever smelt is when a smoker stands next to me. SMOKING SHOULD BE ILLEGAL.
Leah said:
I lived in an apartment complex where the people upstairs of me smoked in their home. When they did, the smoke filtered through the bathroom fan, and my daughters and I could smell it. My youngest gets sick from cigarette smoke. I don't believe that people should be allowed to smoke inside their apartments. People have the right to do unhealthy things to their bodies, but at the same time, others have the right to be healthy. second hand smoke does not give someone that option.
darla said:
Another law.......Whats next! The law needs to better the already laws,concentrate on finding ways to stop puppy mills and dog fighting and school shootings ,etc. If they are so concerned about smokers,they need to help those of us who want to quit and control or stop the cig. co,before coming into our homes.But if they go after the source of the problem,they would lose too much money,cause they know people will break the law and that will put more money in their pockets!Court cost,jail time,plus money off tobacco illegally being sold,probably make alot more money!I don't trust gov. motives anymore! The more I find out,the more I don't trust!
Darla
The issue at hand is not whether or not smoking is bad for the individual. The question is whether or not the government has the right to govern the decisions of the individual. This goes along the same lines as laws against homosexuality, substance use, and political activity. Government is good for managing the necessary elements of civilization, such as roads, electricity, and schools. It is oppressive thinking that believes the government will be just as effective governing individual freedoms.
NO, I THINK TACOMA SHOULD TRY TO FIX THE CITY AND FOCUS ON ISSUES LIKE, STREETS AND ROADS.SCHOOLS AND CRIME. HOMELESS. GET A GRIP ON WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING, INSTEAD YOUR LOOKING INTO STICKING YOUR NOSE INTO PEOPLES HOMES...
There's an old saying: "The wind can come into a man's house, but the king cannot." Government has no business in someones house unless a crimes is being committed and so far smoking is not a criminal act.
The first and third comments are 100% correct.
Government is getting TOO big and concerning itself with TOO many things. It does not need to make laws dictating what people can or can't do in their own homes, as long as they are not REALLY harming others.
Government needs to step back...BIG TIME.
I don't see how government can mandate non-smoking in our homes, unless the home is government subsidized. However, I believe that rental owners should be able to restrict their tenants to non-smokers.
Your lead in to this story was a city was considering..."preventing homeowners from lighting up in their own living room." FYI renters are not homeowners. That being said, I believe that landlords have the right to ban smoking on/in their properties and to make this a condition of any rental contract. Government has no business doing the same unless they are the landlord. Why doesn't Tacoma just ban the sale of tobacco products within the city limits of Tacoma?
What we do in the privacy of our own homes, as long as what we are doing does not break the law (and smoking is legal), is our own business. Banning smoking in public places is one thing. But telling people they can not smoke in the privacy of their homes is an invasion of privacy. I do not smoke and do not allow anyone to smoke in my apartment. But, people who do smoke should be allowed to. If banning smoking in apartments goes through, then it won't be long before the government decides you can't smoke in your house either. Then they will ban other things as well.
Things like this proposed ban does not surprise me though. When he was running for president our dear President Hussein said he would dictate what we eat and drink and the type of cars we drive and his wife said that her husband would not allow us to live our lives as we had been. So, with a state as liberal was Washington is this is just an extension of his dictatorial agenda.
NO
but it is time to ban some officials out of our lives
Only if I'm on fire! Then I would definately want the government to stop me from smoking.
Yes, Yes, Yes. They do however need to make them only for apartments and housing that are attached or within a small distance from neighbors. Also where there are restrictions on distance from buildings and smoking. They need to increase the distance as wind carries cigarette smoke a good distance.
Here is why I feel so strongly on this issue as I have firsthand experience of dealing with my rights as a non-smoker to be able to have a home where I am not exposed to, or am forced to endure others people’s cigarette smoke. One person’s freedom does impose on another’s freedom here as one person chooses to smoke in their home while another person wants a smoke free home and living environment at the same time (welcome to the lifestyle of living in an apartment). In an apartment and attached home life style these opposing freedoms do not have a middle ground that can be created as smoking is allowed even with restrictions in place. As everyone knows smoking restrictions tend not followed by many smokers and since they are not enforced by management in apartments for the most part either. Smokers live a life of feeling entitled to smoke wherever, however, and around whomever they please. Freedom you say? I say they are freedom violators who care nothing for their fellow man and only for their nasty smoking habit and a right to do as they please regardless of how it violates others freedom of breathing air that is not a health hazard (Scientifically proven with verifiable medical data to back it up).
I moved into a 3rd floor apartment almost 2 years ago and was communicated beforehand via rules & regulations handed to me that the apartment rules and regulations very clearly stated that smoking was not allowed on balconies and in common areas and if it was done in apartments? If it was done in apartments that smokeless ash trays are required to be used.
Just as you commonly find a person smoking while standing near a “NO SMOKING” sign and when you point this out to them because their cigarette smoke is blowing in your face. They act as if your being a jerk and basically either ignore you, become verbally abusive at you, or put it out with very clear agitation that you called them on their behavior that is not allowed. I can go on and on with examples here.
Well, I stayed for 6 months in this apartment before I could not tolerate the cigarette smoke any longer as it penetrated and lingered in my apartment from the many smokers in my building as almost ever balcony was used by tenants to smoke and I also believe the previous renter and that it was imbedded in the walls and the filters of the heating units. I kept windows shut, and bought box fans which I set up above every window opening and sliding door to balcony with them blowing down in a manner that created a wind barrier to help block out much of smoke. I also bought 2 top of the line expensive Hepa filter air purifiers to clean the air along with 2 filtering humidifiers as well to replace the moisture that my air purifiers as they cleaned the air. I ran these almost continuously to deal with the cigarette smoke problem and for the most part they helped a lot at much expense to me. However it did not help when other tenants smoked as it still penetrated into my apartment on a very frequent basis as the many chain smokers in connecting apartments did not choose to smoke at the same time. They alternated in such a fashion that there was hardly a break especially during the evening time when it seems smokers do their most smoking in apartment environments.
I did address with management this matter first to no avail and also with tenants who lived below me in an attempt to compromise to come up with solutions that would work for both of us. Such as asking for warning before they smoked on balcony below my balcony in summertime to allow for me to close openings near balcony. I was met with hostility and verbal language I will not repeat here.
I discovered that I have very bad allergies and may be allergic to cigarette smoke. It was very exasperating to find a way to prevent smoke from coming into my apartment as I would be sitting in my living room watching television with all of my preventive measures in play in the evening and would start having severe headaches that only happened when I smelt cigarette smoke that was entering my apartment. I also believe the seals and framework of building allowed the cigarette smoke from other apartments to seep into mine. I know this is from people smoking as I would get so frustrated that I would do a walk around building to see if it truly was due to someone smoking. Every single time I was getting a headache in my living room and I walked around to check out my theory proved true. There was always a smoker smoking on their balcony within a close manner. Not once did I have a headache like this that I was unable to find an attached neighbor smoking. Since I have left the apartment life, I do not have these headaches or smell cigarette smoke in my living space and I have been out of that apartment for over a year now. The cost of moving in and purchasing items to deal with smoke, and moving back out involved a lot of money for me that I really did not have and wish I did not have to spend it this way. I wanted to stay in the apartment and could not do so as a result of cigarette smoke in my apartment and not able to prevent this from occurring. I did extreme and above the norm methods to deal with the cigarette smoke and failed to come up with a solution that gave me a smoke free apartment to live in.
Also note that after I moved into this apartment as a result of selling my own home that I owned for 10 years. In a house that has adequate space from other homes where you are not exposed to other smoker’s inconsiderate behavior that care nothing about the affect of their cigarette smoke on people around them.
After I moved in and began to try to resolve the issue of cigarette smoke in my apartment. I later found out that the person who processed me into the apartment gave me invalid rules and regulations that even though date on regulations was very recent. It was not ones that they enforced as it was not given out to tenants yet, and even though it was from the corporate level it did not go through the process of being handed out to all tenants first. I was then given a copy of the rules and regulations that all the tenants had and was the ones being enforced. These basically had no restrictions on smoking. I would love to sue this apartment for all the money I lost dealing with this mess. Yet I don’t have the time, or money to deal with this headache.
Finally out of complete and utter exasperation of cigarette smoke penetrating my apartment and having extreme migraines from smelling it continuously in my apartment with all outside openings shut and appliances running and not stopping it from coming into my apartment finally drove me out and back into a private home where I now rent a room and do not have to endure others smoking in our around my living place.
So don't tell me that the government should not make these kinds of rules. Yes it is the same the need for laws of driving on public roads. Just as driving on public roads need to be regulated, so should smoking in compact apartments and housing structures that are attached to one another.
So, please keep the rhetoric comments of how government is violating the freedom of people and start looking at how smokers are violating the freedom of non-smokers who are forced and trapped to live in housing that is not able to keep out cigarette smoke out of their housing no matter what measures are taken by them to keep it out.
Get real folks and stop crying foul when it comes to smoker’s freedom. Take a good hard look at how non-smokers freedoms are continuously being violated by cigarette smokers not caring about where, how, and how often do they smoke or how it affects those nearby them in public, and in private homes. Smoke does not respect limits or physical boundaries and the only way to have it so is to get people to be aware with limits and restrictions that are enforced by government with penalties that will cause compliance to them.
So what is the next proposed ban to be? prohibit the act of nudity within the home (except when taking a shower or bath) having sex ONLY on the day that are pre-approved by the government? No,No,No, I got one...we the people will be required to keep a record on how many time we go to the bathroom in our own home (or apt) so we can be taxed on that as well.
I do not belive the Government needs to interfere in a persons own private home, But that is different and the smoking issues in Apartment and Government sub. housing. Smoke drifting into non smoking residence apts are very dangerous to medically impaired persons.. It is a tested fact that 2nd hand smoke is the number 3 killer of people. If people want to smoke and kill themselves. go for it, but you do have the right to kill me with your 2nd hand smoke.
People need to be accountable for their actions. and not harm others.
I believe if you have children you shouldn't smoke in your house anyway. But we have more important issues to deal with besides smoking bans in our private residences.
If it is YOUR home, you should be able to do what you want, within reason, of course. A lit cigarette can and will start a fire. If there is a possibility of danger to other people or structures, there should be a smoking ban. Don't like it? Move.
I usually don't comment on these things, but this is going to far. If a landlord doesn't want to rent to smokers, they have that right. The government does not have the right to sit in someone's living room monitoring their behavior. The KGB did, but I live in America don't I?
When is the government going to start going after alcohol? It kills 6+ times more people than all other drugs combined, it detrimental to other peoples health - just ask anyone hit by a drunken driver or a drunken spouse and is done in public and at times is paid for by the government. How about, to get the government out of debt, we put a $2 a bottle tax on alcohol?
Sorry for the lengthy comment on first post. I felt it was relavent to share in such detail.
There is no such thing as total freedom to do whatever, however, and whenever behavior without limits in our world. There never has been, nor will there ever be this as a fact.
Freedom always comes with a cost of limits, and boundaries on peoples behavior. This creates true freedom versus the sick entitlement freedom that has eroded the moral fibre of our country over the years. I am 46 years old and am very analytical in my life that draws from a broad scope in my past, and reading our history along with the history of our world as I make these comments.
True freedom does not violate anothers persons freedom. So when your talking freedom. Keep this in mind.
A persons freedom will never ever ever take away the freedom of another person in any way, shape or form.
Any other way of looking at it is simply one persons sick viewpoint of their entitlement of behaving in our world in a manner that is not checked by this fact.
Think about it. Our freedom was bought at a high price and it has limits and boundaries in its foundation.
as far as I know I am the one paying the rent and until the Goverment pays my rent I can do what I want as long as it isnt against the law
How many more rights are they going to take away from us. They might as well through out the Privacy Act all together. What are they going to ban in our own homes next? The right to even speak? The right to cook? The right to bathe? The right to walk around nude? The right to sleep? The government needs to stay out of our personal lives when we are not breaking the law and as far as I know smoking is not against the law. There is much worse things then smoking in our homes. How are they even going to enforce this in our own homes? Will they hire a cigarette policeman to do this? Spend money where it is really needed and leave us alone in our own homes!
There needs to be a clear boundary placed here in regards to what is being addressed.
The right to smoke a persons privately owned home that is completely separate from other homes is one issue at hand.
While paying rent in a home that is attached to other homes via interior walls and such is not a privately owned home.
There is a huge and vast difference here and is being ignored in many posts here.
A rentor is not a home owner and is not entitled to a blanket set of freedom that does whatever they please.
You can't do as you please in our nation and it is very messed up thinking to feel an entitlement to do so.
Things are addressed and changed one thing at a time. Things like smoking bans are brought up because of peoples refusal to smoke in a considerate manner and the only way to address it is in laws as the majority of smokers refuse to be considerate and to look at how their behavior is harming another person.
Being self absorbed and not caring about others is not freedom. It is very messed up thinking and is abusing the very freedom they are screaming about.
At Fed-Up: I didn't bother to read all of what was said in your post, lengthy it was - especially for rhetoric. I understand the complications that living in an appartment can bring when you choose to live a smoke-free lifestyle near people who choose to smoke; been there done that.
However, a better idea would be to create a smoking section where smokers may live near each other and a smoke free section where non-smokers would live.
The Government has no right imposing laws and removing freedoms of both the private industry or the people of this nation. It's job is to find suitable compromises for everyone involved so that everyone can keep their freedoms.
I agree with Larry from the first few comments.
Tacoma needs to take care of there city without tring to find other ways to step the rights of the public.
If land lords make it clear they do not want renters to smoke in there buildings, fine, but don't involve city Gov. you know city gov. is dying to take away more rights of the people
As Ryan P.H. stated. I apologize for letting my personal situation with the apartment that I dealt with create a strong response that kept other solutions from being seen by me.
Your suggestion is a good one and I apologize for being so dogmatic in how I stated things.
See there are solutions. Yet how can these solutions be put into place to prevent a situation like mine as I shared in my lengthy first comment?
Thanks Ryan for redirecting me back to having a more pragmatic approach to this topic.
Anyone who has lived in an apartment knows that the walls are shared property. I lived in 3 apartments before I was able to buy a home, and in 2 of them the smoke from other apartments was so bad it gave me athsma attacks. If it did that to me, an otherwise healthy young adult, I can only imagine the effect it would have on children, the elderly, or people with compromised immune systems.
Thankfully, I was able to move. A neighbor of mine couldn't afford to move although she also suffered from the smoke. People should not be forced to breath secondhand smoke simply because they can't afford to move or buy a house.
The government has not only the right but the duty to step in when the air from one apartment passes into another and causes illness. At that point, smoking ceases to be a private act. If the walls are detatched, that's a different story.
With the SOCIALISTS in charge we will lose more freedoms and rights. Tacoma has more power to shred the constitution because of the socialists in office. If you voted them in, shut up, you did it to yourselves. I moved away from western WA because of the socialist ideology of the government. Get them out of office if you don't like what they are doing
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!? I'm not even a smoker, and I think this ban is totally rediculous.
What's next? Banning people from blowing their nose on public streets? How about banning us from accidentally burning our steaks on the BBQ. Enough is enough,lets keep government OUT of our lives. NOT give them another reason to breath down our necks.
Is this the same government that is now charging me over $2.00 a pack for cigarettes? Where do they plan on getting their money when we all quit?
is this the same government that is now charging me over $2 a pack in taxes? where are they going to get their money when we all quit?
Isn't it amazing how "It's for your own good" has become the accepted Reason (excuse) for Big Brother to watch over us? The Means Justifies The End (it's on every dollar by the way). Does no one out there understand that when Any One Of Us loses "A Right to Privacy", for whatever reason, no matter the justification, WE ALL LOSE!!!!!! Just wait, soon parents will have to agree to have chips put in their babies "only to help prevent abduction", and it wont be a choice because "It's for your own good" will again be used. If that made you laugh you need to get off your soapbox and open your eyes.
Isn't it amazing how "It's for your own good" has become the accepted Reason (excuse) for Big Brother to watch over us? The Means Justifies The End (it's on every dollar by the way). Does no one out there understand that when Any One Of Us loses "A Right to Privacy", for whatever reason, no matter the justification, WE ALL LOSE!!!!!! Just wait, soon parents will have to agree to have chips put in their babies "only to help prevent abduction", and it wont be a choice because "It's for your own good" will again be used. If that made you laugh you need to get off your soapbox and open your eyes
Welcome comrade to the USSTW the United Socialist Society of Tacoma, Washington
This idea holds the same merit as the Tacoma law that tickets you for letting your car idle unattended on your own property. If property owners want to restrict renters' activities, that is fine; but to try to legislate it from city hall is ludicrous. It's time to stop creating and implementing laws that penalize the majority of citizens-or even a minority-for the irresponsible actions of a few.
As a Conservative Republican, I say ban it. Cigarettes kill people when drunk pill popping losers pass out with a cigeratte in their hand, cause a fire and innocent people die...
Ban, ban, ban. It is God's way, my way and the right way. I have the bible and America on my side, therefore, I am RIGHT, and you all are wrong!
Long live Nixon and Rush!
TO FED-UP AND THE GOVERNMENT WE ALL HAVE RIGHTS AND IT SEEMS LIKE ALL NON SMOKERS ARE FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHT WELL YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE SMOKE AND TO CLOSE YOUR NOSE. THE GOVERNMENT FIX THE ECONOMY FINANCES AND LET US LIVE AS WE PLEASE LIKE MOST HAVE SAID UNTIL YOU PAY OUR MORTAGE THEN WE FOLLOW YOUR RULES PLEASE FIX THE BIGGER ISSUES BEFORE TRYIN TO MAKE BIGGER PROBLEMS...
When should we expect the Gestapo to come down the street? When do we get taxed for oxygen?
This is total crap to say it nicely. I can actually see people moving away from apartments because of this, I think the money spent on it in this economy is bull!!!! Cities cant even meet their budgets, but they are spend tax payer money to hire someone to see if this can be done and wastes time making the bill that cost money for thier time to do this....Way to go government, yet again another way to keep us free!
I can understand why people can be concerned in small apartments, but you control where YOU live! you know the rules of the complex before you move in, if they allow smoking in apts or not. If they do then get over it and find somewhere else to live! I own my place, I smoke but I go outside! And even though I am trying to quit this just pisses me totally OFF! Like I said, money money money...they already cant afford the ecomomy, It is my choice to pay the taxes to smoke, It is my choice to spend the money to buy them, IT IS NOT MY CHOICE TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT TELL ME WHAT AND HOW TO DO IT IN MY OWN HOME! You know I have had non smokers whine and stand by an ashtray...MOVE GO ANOTHER WAY! the choice is yours.
I hate to say it... But i don't think the government should have the right to tell people what they can and can not do in the privacy of their own residence. I DO think that the landlords should be able to ban smoking in their apartment building if they want. But for the government to dictate, is just wrong. Next thing you know, you can't bang the headboards with your wife after 9pm, and a limit of 12 beers in the home at one time is the new rule... Privacy is dead. Think about it!
I don't think that is's ok for government or the apartment management to say that you can't smoke in the space that you are renting. Where does it end? Next they will be restricting who visits you and what hours they can visit, who you can have sex with, what type of sex, and where you can have it in your apartment. You have to draw the line somewhere.
If the government decides to regulate, then they need to have a renters bill of rights. Just like the law that police have to abide by. A person has a right to a reasonable right to privacy if there is no probable cause. Do it like the airline industry with the passenger bill of rights.
Hey, quit the complaining. You voted them in now you have what you wished for.
Don't like it then vote them out and change the law back.
Remember, the rights of minorities are controlled by the majority (you the voters).
One creeping law at a time. Until liberals in government totally control your lives.
For those who have made comments attacking my comments.
Read what I posted well you...
I did the due diligence of making sure I moved into an apartment that had smoking restrictions that would prevent having to smell it as I did in the privacy of my own residence.
So stop whining about how no-smokers are not making choices that keeps us out of enduring anothers smoke being blown in our face.
When the bottom line is how smokers do not care one bit about being considerate in how they smoke cigarettes and its affect on people nearby.
This self absorbed entitlement attitude is what has destroyed our nation as freedom has been turned into an excuse to ram one persons choice down anothers throat such as smoking does and then have the absurdity to call it freedom.
Yes I have a choice in my life. I moved out after only 6 months and it cost me alot of money to do all that moving in a short period of time.
All because of an apartment management team that gave me rules and regulations that stated smoking would be contained in a manner that would not affect me. Then after I moved in the rules changed on me.
So don't tell me how I have choices and that my choices did whatever.
Non-smokers are not walking aroung just complaining as it seems to be percieved on many of these comments.
We are taking pro-active steps to avoid cigarette smoke as much as humanly possible.
It is when smokers choose to smoke in a manner that is impossible to avoid that is being addressed here.
Wake up and get your focus off of just YOU and broaden your viewpoint to include others.
Then maybe you will see a need for such laws as this one in an Apartment complex living situation.
Please get off your high horses about self absorbed smoking behavior being an expression of freedom.
I suppose you feel drive-by shootings are an expression of freedom as well...
yagp86
to fed-up
you are a long winded whine tit
Smoking is no different medically than shooting a gun off in public, so if it can be done safely ~~~ Why Not?
The above thought seems to be the common Liberal response and to some degree, I must admit that I agree. However if I am going to be the one at the other end of the gun ~~~ I think it is important to have some reasonable level of protection to be put in place, as in guns should never be placed in the hands of PC TruBluLiberal.
As for the Tacomca apartment smoking ban, I have never been in apartment that I could not at one time or another smell sometimes a really great dinner being cooked in the kitchen next door ... thus ... I don't want to smell or have my health adversely affected by my nieghbor's Right to Smoke as well.
BTW - What successful, intelligent and/or educated person still smokes anyway; I guess I just answered my own question, it is those that aren't who do.
I have been smoking for 15 years and i know how hard it is when you can't have a cigarette. I just recently tried this new product as an alternative to smoking when you can't have a cigarette. It actually vaporizes the nicotine, there is no smoke, no smell and no carcinogens. It tastes and feels like your smoking a cigarette, but its permitted every where smoking is not. Check the site out, It may be alittle expensive for some, but it cuts down on the amount you smoke, plus its cheaper for refills then cigarettes and stops the cravings and makes it easy. www.myinlife.com/psmegal You can also become a distributor and make a small profit while you enjoy the product. Check out the link its definately worth your time.
I have been smoking for 15 years and i know how hard it is when you can't have a cigarette. I just recently tried this new product as an alternative to smoking when you can't have a cigarette. It actually vaporizes the nicotine, there is no smoke, no smell and no carcinogens. It tastes and feels like your smoking a cigarette, but its permitted every where smoking is not. Check the site out, It may be alittle expensive for some, but it cuts down on the amount you smoke, plus its cheaper for refills then cigarettes and stops the cravings and makes it easy. www.myinlife.com/psmegal You can also become a distributor and make a small profit while you enjoy the product. Check out the link its definately worth your time.
YES,YES,YES. Im a Cancer Survivor of Throat Cancer due to 2nd hand smoke. I agree that it should be illegal. SMOKERS are very rude and have no class. I have seen so many smokers open there car doors and dump there ash trays in the road or while there driving flick there nasty, stinky cigarette butts out. Cigarette should be taxed to the limit. They should cost 20 bucks a pack or more. I would rather eat dog poop than kiss a smoker. One of the worset smells i have ever smelt is when a smoker stands next to me. SMOKING SHOULD BE ILLEGAL.
I lived in an apartment complex where the people upstairs of me smoked in their home. When they did, the smoke filtered through the bathroom fan, and my daughters and I could smell it. My youngest gets sick from cigarette smoke. I don't believe that people should be allowed to smoke inside their apartments. People have the right to do unhealthy things to their bodies, but at the same time, others have the right to be healthy. second hand smoke does not give someone that option.
Another law.......Whats next! The law needs to better the already laws,concentrate on finding ways to stop puppy mills and dog fighting and school shootings ,etc. If they are so concerned about smokers,they need to help those of us who want to quit and control or stop the cig. co,before coming into our homes.But if they go after the source of the problem,they would lose too much money,cause they know people will break the law and that will put more money in their pockets!Court cost,jail time,plus money off tobacco illegally being sold,probably make alot more money!I don't trust gov. motives anymore! The more I find out,the more I don't trust!
Darla