NO

I agree.

If anyone has a problem with it, I would refer them to the documentary Zeitgeist.

Being a pagan, it is a shame that all of our pagan symbols, rights and holidays were stolen and had their names changed by Christians- similar to what Rome did to Greece.

I am not a religious person, but i find this display to be petty. Christmas has become more of a secular holiday rather than a religious holiday in the United States. Can't we all just enjoy the season rather than splitting hairs over stupid displays?

Absolutely! Christmas has more to do with sales than religion, these days. There is no physical proof that Jesus ever existed, nor that he was born of a virgin, or rose from the dead. These are myths. Anthropology teaches us that all cultures, ancient and modern are equal. Most religious leaders today are like Wall Street CEO's with lavish life styles. God, if he exists, doesn't need the money. I am an agnostic and learned in Philosphy 101; the existance of God, can be niether proven or disproven. The state is right to seek neutrality on this issue.

America is the great melting pot. To be fair, if you can do it, I can do it. Restrict others rights and risk losing your own. But the man is right. Winter Solstice is much older than Christmas.

NO

I like the religious displays however athiests have the same right to their opinion also.Forget about it ,remember most wars are originated from disagreements between religious factions and for that reason I am against organized religion.Fanatics shouldnt be allowed to cram their religion down someone elses throat.Religion should be a personal thing and no one should criticize someone elses belief.

Atheists are forgetting something with their anti-God sputtering and mutterings,
THEY HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SOMETHING NOT TO BELIEVE IN

that is the ultimate proof that there is GOD so let them have all the displays they want as long as they are not hateful or hurtful (one of MY basic Civil Liberties as an American)

And as a previous poster stated: Christmas no longer represents Jesus to most cultures and certainly not in this sluggish economy where the retail units want our almighty dollar will we see certain aspects except the dollar signs...so I say, let the atheists who profess there is nothing to believe in have their displays because truly as the sky is blue : ONE DAY EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS HE IS GOD, ONE DAY EVERY KNEE WILL BOW....

It should not be allowed! Why is it that we have gotten to a point in this society that we always have to give in to what the minority want? Atheists are the minority during the Christmas season. The purpose of the Christmas season is to celebrate the birth of Christ. If the atheists want to do a display, let them do something somewhere else. Government and companies need to get a backbone and stand up for what they beleive instead of giving in to this nonsense.

Yes - If religious zealots are provided with a public forum for their ideas, the forum should allow for atheist speech, as well. It's that simple.

Atheism: The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Makes perfect sense.

As absurd as this sounds, the rapid growth and acceptance of this belief was inevitable And it will get worse before it gets better.

Stand strong in your faith, my Christian Brothers and Sisters. I feel the heartbreak too, but all you can do is just love them anyway, and hope they will feel "the heart-tug" like we did.

Yes. Absolutely! How refreshing to finally see a little equality for those of us who are not superstitious!
I grew up with Christianity around me, and enjoy the Christian mythology at Christmastime, of togetherness and giving, and all the pretty lights and decorations, but to claim that Christians were the originator of that idea, or have any special 'rights' to the date, is patently untrue! The Christians chose this time of year because it had already been made popular by pagan religions and it was easier to join with them in order to infiltrate the psyche of the population.
I especially like the fact that by displaying this sign it may empower some people who have never dared to question their 'faith' for fear of being the only one speaking out, when in fact there are more and more atheists, agnostics, Humanists and others, who do not believe in a God or Heaven or Hell and who live Good lives without that worry and without having to justify the myths in the Bible! Enjoy the season, and the fact that we all have a right to free speech in this country!

Finally the truth is allowed in Public!
Religions are philosophy based on myth and legend. True, some preach love and peace, but in the Puget Sound Military
Industrial Complex, hate and war are more
often proselytized as God's Word.

Wow, the ones who don't believe sure are up early, And you have been up all night as well. Maybe you can't sleep because the economy is so bad and you have nothing but yourselves to trust in. Myth huh? I guess if I am wrong I've lost nothing. Just lived a good life, given generously, and made a difference in the lives of others. And if you guys are wrong????? Looks like your positioning yourselves to lose it all....and about the display, just makes the atheist movement look petty.

why do the athiests only go after christmas? theres a "holiday tree" and a menorah downtown (or there has been before) and no one said "you have to call that thing a big holiday candlestick"

that sign is shameful. who in their right mind would allow anyone to put a sign that says "there is no god" next to a nativity? even if you arent christian, you have to admit that's rude and disrespectful to christians.

NWCN-

I recently saw your news cast about the atheist display in the capital. Personally It was a little bit distressing. I’m a atheist and part of a group. I phoned other members after watching and they too agree that putting up a sign like so was petty. I don’t believe in God but even I know that this is a season to forgive and get along.

For this group who believe in NO GOD, NO HEAVEN, NO HELL forgot to add, FOR US, NO CHANCE OF A FUTURE EITHER.

As for me, I am please to have HOPE.

What a fantastic GIFT.

Christmas trees have always been called Christmas trees and that shouldn't change just because it offends a few people. I understand if some don't believe in a god, but you shouldn't destroy it for the people who do or who may need it. I would much rather believe and find out in the end that there isn't a god and be disapointed than to not believe and find out that there is a god. I personally dont understand why it offends people so much. God is a source of love, hope, comfort, and joy. Why would anyone want to destroy that for others even if he doesn't exsist?

We live in a free democracy I agree, but if there wasn't an overall trust in God, why is it printed on most of our currency, along with a lot of "other" symbols. I would also bet the atheists prefer to be paid in currency rather than trade or other material things,

To each his own, but I don't see why those of us who believe in God should be denied the usual traditional Christmas displays. I always thought that majority rules! AND I do agree it is disrespetful to put that sign next to a nativity.

Nina Smith

Why is this an issue? Is the Capitol building in Olympia a Christian church or shrine? The poster presented by the non-religious folk makes it point without being disrespectful (maybe it's a little bit strident, but stridency is certainly not actionable or we'd have to indict half the talking heads on TV). I think whoever made this decision in Olympia is on exactly the right tack. Tough that it polarizes people, but the angry Christians can take comfort in the fact that kids are far more likely to be attracted to that Christmas tree than to some stupid sign. And, after all, what's Christmas about? (Christmas trees, ornaments, presents = Shopping, duh.)

These atheists need their own place where they can display their opinions. But next to the display of holy images is disgraceful and disrespectful. These folks don't seem to have any problems using our paper bills with, 'In God we trust.'
Ho, ho, ho love ya.

Why are we all talking about this sign ,,,, I think we should be talking about things we could do for all the pepole that are homeless, and kids that need help , this sign is just words and if you read it , it is up to you , the way you take things is just the way they get to you , you know what the 25 of december is for ,,, the sign is just words ,,, and I THINK THAT IT IS JUST A WAY OF GETTING PEOPLE TO FIGHT , WE ARE DOING THAT IN THE WAR , AND OUR BOYS ARE GETTING KILLED FOR WHAT,,, A SIGN,,,,, CAN'T WE THINK OF SOMETHING BETER TO FIGHT OVER ? THANK YOU , FROM SOMEONE WHO ONLY CARES ABOUT OUR GUYS IN THE WAR!!!!

I would wish for a state government that had some spine and still uphold the concept of seperation of church and state. Take down the religious and anti-religious displays and quit pandering and trying to please everyone.

An athiest in my understanding doesn't believe in anything. it seems to me they must believe in something to use cardboard with a bunch of meaningless words on it!!! I pray that the holy spirit touch their lives this season and they find that northern star.
In respect
Karan

Oh please,
Violence in the streets, economic downturn, unemployment, global wars..I think we need a bit more of God spread around..

Right on -- we atheists often get short shrift in these holiday times.

Its simply freedom of speech. If one can display a Christmas tree or a menora then simply atheists should have their say as well. Remember ... Democracy and Freedom of Speech means that you don't always get what you want or want to hear. Its that simple.

As said above .. the Capitol building isn't a religious building .. its simply an office building. Now if it were a Catholic church .. this sign had no reason to be there inside.

OK- first of all the most amusing part of the whole thing is the fact that in fact Christmas is a pagan holiday. So, Christmas came along much later. Saturnalia, was celebrated in Rome during the same period of the year. So, when the Pagans converted it was sort of with the covenent of "But we're still celebrating our traditional Holidays there Mr. POPE...POPE Being a PAGAN title for the High Preist...Pontif Latin Bridge to God...Pagan nomenclature even Caesar was POPE for a few years ya know... Same religion different saints same high god (actually same name as well, just obscured) HISTORICAL FACT...

Christmas is the time when nativity scenes, angels, bright stars and wreaths light up millions of homes, offices and businesses. You don't hear a bunch of athiests complaining about being offended, so unless you want to get rid of Christmas trees in public, just be respectful. Let their tiny sign be next to a 2 story Christmas tree. Christmas is about spreading cheer, not getting angry at people who have a different opinion than you!!!

Christmas is the time when nativity scenes, angels, bright stars and wreaths light up millions of homes, offices and businesses. You don't hear a bunch of athiests complaining about being offended, so unless you want to get rid of Christmas trees in public, just be respectful. Let their tiny sign be next to a 2 story Christmas tree. Christmas is about spreading cheer, not getting angry at people who have a different opinion than you!!!

Does anyone remember that little thing called separation of church and state? Everyone is free to believe whatever they want, but religion should be kept out of school and government. Also what does a tree or Santa have to do with Christ?

The State Capital Building is not the place for atheist remarks and signs. Our Constitution was founded on Christian beliefs and our forefathers included God in all their assemblies, documents and products. Atheism was not included then, and should not be included now. If an individual wants to believe that way, then he can do it in private. America is a Christian nation, tolerant of other religions, not atheism. Other religions worship God in different ways, but still worship God. Atheism is not a religion, therefore has no place with other religious displays.

I do think that the sign should be allowed to be there. The argument would go the same if it were a religious display. Atheists have every right to speak/show their views, just as all the close minded religious people having a temper tantrum over this. It's a sign. If you don't like it, don't read it. Stop and enjoy what you want to see and then move on.

I do think that the sign should be allowed to be there. The argument would go the same if it were a religious display. Atheists have every right to speak/show their views, just as all the close minded religious people having a temper tantrum over this. It's a sign. If you don't like it, don't read it. Stop and enjoy what you want to see and then move on.

The celebration of Christmas should not be allowed to be sullied by any minority group.

No matter which religion, there is worship and ceremony, be it Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, which ever one believes in.

The atheists' total lack of any religious belief should be subscibed to by a total lack of any display as well. For them to insist on some type of display turns this display of holiday celebration into a place of contention rather than bringing harmony and good will to all men.

How many of them there "atheists" are accepting their holiday pay and taking Christmas off work with the rest of those who will have that priviledge? If they are true to their disbelief, let them forego the benefits derived thereof.

If they are going to show Jesus, they can also show any other religion people wish to show. I read it as a positive message to appreciate our lives and nature the way they are. The real test is since atheists don't believe in Christmas, let's see that sign up all year.

Christmas is a time to celebrate the birth of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Atheist messages have no place next to Christmas displays.

I'm not, however, surprised that the idiots in Olympia would allow it. Washington State seems to be competing with California to see who can be the most Liberal, anti-religious and immoral state in the union. The motto of the immoral left seems to be, "Do not offend aetheitsts but feel free to offend Christians whenever and as often as you can."

As a believer in Jesus Christ, the uninformed may try to take Christmas from HIM but HE IS CHRISTMAS. GO AHEAD NON-BELIEVERS, live it up because that is all you will ever have. God have mercy on you.

In the end, the sign has as much right to be there as the nativity/christmas display. This is a free-speech society, even is too many religious fanatics wish it weren't.

That said, even as an agnostic, I grew up around christmas in all its glory, and I have a deep fondness for the getting together of people, the food, the smiles, the prezzies, the lights...all the ebulliance of the holiday. That should never go away, even if one believes or disbelieves in god/church, yadda-yadda-yadda.

I could only wish in this crazy, divided, fanatic global society that people could just accept the right of ALL people/creeds to have free speech, to just deal with our differences and enjoy this nice time of the year for whatever it brings them. BUT, the rabid idiots of ALL backgrounds have rendered that pleasant idea pretty much useless, and so we have the need for artificial rules like equality of speech... And this right ultimately NEEDS to be enforced to keep the fanatics from taking over any more than they already have.

Christian symbolism has long overshadowed all other religious symbolism during this season. It is time that others who celebrate this time of the year are recognized also.
This nation was founded on freedom of religion - even if that religion is not believing in a God.
Public displays should always be neutral. It is just as easy to have a display of snowflakes, snowmen and children frolicking in the snow to celebrate the joy of the season.
If Christians really want to celebrate the birth of their God - perhaps they should do so when he was actually supposed to be born - in the Spring -and stop usurping other religions' holy days - like the Yule Solstice.

on another note, what ever became of that rabbi and his threat to sue seatac over the holiday decorations? is he still at it or did seatac dump the whole decorations idea?

I think this is an extreme waste of time. Look on your dollar bill. The "Pledge of Elligance." Read the Constitution several times and you will understand that our nation was founded on Christian beliefs. Plain and simple! There are many who chose to stay silent in the hope of not offending someone. Stand Firm in your faith. The sign must go! Have your own holiday, but leave Christmas alone. One day church and state will again be one, so enjoy it while you can. God Bless!!!

Honestly, I think it to be disgraceful. Not because some individual is expressing his or her rights of expression, but because they are trying to push their misguided belief on others. It just goes to show how afraid we have become in this country of the "truth" My opinion, "I'll let Jesus Christ take care of the atheists in this this world"

Thanks and Merry Christmas

All of our family members watch your program....esp. the weather report! **** HERE'S THE POINT! AS to the letters above; some good, some ludicrous "history",... some really skewed logic,... THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON FREEDOM OF RELIGION, NOT FROM RELIGION so we could all have freedom to practice our own religion or not, without coercion; however, the Grinch was not practicing 'his' religion; your aggression towards my Holyday smacks of fear expressed! You are just HOPING that CHRISTIANITY IS not TRUE. Stop trying to rewrite History and 'get' your own special day to celebrate!!! (and yes, the three !!!'s are significant)!PS If they ever do get their day, let's remember that we do not need more anger, use some of that energy to do more ACTS OF KINDNESS, smiles are good, too!

I agree with the fellow who said the display is petty. It is a spiteful gesture because the language in the sign has absolutely nothing to do with the Christmas spirit or the goodwill of the Holiday season which the whole world (or almost, at least), is celebrating in one way or another.
I don't recall seeing a sign like that in a Halloween display, it belongs on a street corner where maybe more people can see it, not polluting a Holiday display.

Merry Christmas everyone!!

I'm vegetarian, but I don't force that on anyone. I believe in God, and I don't force that on anyone either. Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are really important aspects of our heritage. Everyone should be allowed to have their say and everyone should be allowed to have their beliefs as long as those beliefs don't bring harm to others. I do have to wonder why an atheist group would feel compelled to put an anti-God/religion statement at a religious display. If they feel so threatened by a religious holiday, perhaps they should examine their insecure feelings about their own beliefs.
I think it would be cool to see pagan Yule and Kwanzaa displays along with Jewish and Christian religious displays. To me the point should be inclusiveness and tolerance of various religious beliefs rather than antagonism towards someone else's religious celebrations.

No, they should not get to say anything. One thing many people fail to see, is that being a Christian is having a personal relationship, with Jesus Christ. It is not a Religion! Now, catholic is, one, or many others out there are. If you as a person make a commitment to Jesus, that is a relationship, you choose to make it, your not forced to. No, they should not get to protest, the people who put up the display, only left a display. It should be left AS IS. By the way, Merry Christmas, and I'm proud, yes proud to say it that way!

No, because athiests don't celebrate Christmas. Now, if the athiests have a special holiday, they by all means they should be able to put up signs for that celebratio without others denouncing it. Why should a vocal minority be able to disrupt a celebration of others and then get up in arms when the compliment is returned to them? I don't THINK so. Athiests can celebrate what they wish unfetered. Athiests need to respect the celebrations of others. Happy Birthday, Jesus.

For centuries, we atheists have been pushed aside and ridiculed, denounced as having no morals and even tortured and burned.
This country is based on a Constitution that was specifically written to be inclusive of all beliefs, and also designed to exclude any partiality to Christianity or any other form of religion, or lack thereof.
As an atheist, I find this sign to be very refreshing. Just as Christians are allowed to preach their faith in public, and to use Pagan Holy Days to celebrate their "Christ-Mass", I am pleased that this might help those that have been pressured by their Christian peers to "believe", but have questions about the validity of the Church, by letting them know that there is another way... one that allows them to live their lives as realistic human beings, who take responsibility for their actions and who place more stock in logics and scientific proof than Biblical superstitions.
If I can remove the burden of "Heaven & Hell" from just one person, I will have done a good job in this life.

The person who wrote the sign is exercising their right to freedom of speech and liberty from censorship, however, these rights do not give them license to oppress others' beliefs. These contrary statements oppose the beliefs of others, they are not simply a belief in and of themselves. On the contrary, they are plain and simple statements of disbelief of others' religions. They do not deserve a place where oppression is unconstitutional. It should be taken down immediately.

if there are religious decorations of any kind, in a govt run-and-paid-for building, then YES the atheists get a spot too. period.
BUT there shouldnt be ANY religious decorations in a govt building. for anyone. hence the idea "separation of church and state" which this country sorely lacks and which without such separation just makes more problems getting things done.
so to the atheists - you get a sign too, if they do! its only fair...
to the religious - listen, not everyone has your blind faith nor needs it (me included) - look at how quickly youve turned this forum into a religious pulpit! can you just shut up about "Him", and "his holiness", and "having something to look forward to", and blah blah blah...
there are other religions, you are NOT the world's majority, and not everyone has such a shallow life that they need to believe in anything at all.
i wish you could just keep god at church, and at home and out of our govt, where it doesnt belong.. no bible for the prez to swear on either.
oh and there's no proof there was ever a god, the bible ISNT proof, its just a book! jesus was just a guy that turned into a leader/martyr - not proof! SOME OF US WANT MORE PROOF THEREFORE DONT BELIEVE - GET OVER IT AND SHUT UP! we didnt get brainwashed in our youth like you did - we thought for ourselves and decided religion is a load of crap. just like you think we're crazy for "not seeing the obvious"

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, religion is defined as: "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power recognized as the creator and governor of the universe." OR "The spiritual or emotional attitude of one who recognizes the existence of a superhuman power or powers." Therefore, I propose that atheism is not a religion because, by definition of the same source, atheism is: "Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God." If atheism is not a religion, then it cannot receive the status of protection that other religions warrant. As Americans, we respect others' beliefs. We do not malign them and try to eliminate them because we ourselves do not agree with them. To oppress(from the same source)is: To weigh heavily upon, esp. so as to depress the mind or spirits. OR To overwhelm or crush. Is the Atheist poster oppressive? I believe it is because it is a group of negative statements that contradict the beliefs of others, in an attempt to malign beliefs and crush the spirit. Oppression is an offense to our constitutional freedoms and rights. Allowing people to display oppressive material in a government building should not be tolerated by the judicial majority.

No, not this particular message since it is not an affirmation of belief but it is worded in a way to insult and tear down others. I have no problem with them positively recognizing a philosophy or idea but this is simply a statement that slams religion.

Im a little sad, I belive in freedom of speech and the seperation of church and state. But I really fell that this sign is nick picky are we really going to that level. I pray that we all will remember what the true meaning for the spirit of holidays mean.

Atheist Sign at Washington Capitol?



Hi, I think that this message is bitter and I question its spirit. We are for freedom of expression, but disrespectful things like this should be of interest. If religion is superstitious/myth, and there is evidence, plenty, to the contrary, then at best if offers us some hope as well as good ethics to live with and help our fellow humanity. If it is true, then again, it helps humanity; it has helped humanity via the many missionaries that have selflessly helped many and asked for nothing in return. So either way, it is a positive force for good. These folks that claim faith in Christ/God is to be mocked, based on this Ad Hominem insult against individuals who do believe in God, are out of line. There is reason for faith.

No proper historical scholar today would have the temerity to question the fact that Jesus existed. There simply is no evidence to making this claim. History backs that Jesus was a real historical figure. The 66 books of the Bible are backed by Manuscript evidence [24,000 Manuscripts, written at different places and times to avoid collusion, Archaeological evidence, Predictive prophesy, and the Science of statistical probability]. We have four evangelists not 1 that wrote about Him with differences in literal style and prose and further enforce the fact that they did not copy each other.

The Science of Statistical Probability is here by Science---

1. The Law of Cause and Effect.

The effect has to have a cause equal to or greater than itself. Nothing cannot cause the Universe. Nothingness, non-living, chance/randomness cannot cause matter, life, consciousness,
and order because it is exponentially lesser than the effect. If nothingness has caused the effect of the universe, then it flies against the laws of cause and effect. And if Nothingness
created the universe, then it would aslo contradict the First Law of Thermodynamics. Chance cannot create what has been created.

2. The First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy Conservation.

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. This claims that we cannot get something from nothing. Nothing comes from nothing.

=0 A
3. The Second Law of Thermodynamics: Entropy.

Things go from order to disorder or from hot to cold [loss of energy]. The universe is slowly dying from heat loss. If, as some claim, that the universe is eternal, then we would have
died of heat loss an infinite number of years a go. This concludes that the universe, though large beyond human comprehension, is not infinite. Philosophical naturalistic Macro-evolution
claims that things go from disorder to order, which is a contradiction of the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Entropy: Order to Disorder. You can’t go from disorder to order.

4. It is clear that the universe, the earth, life, and consciousness were engineered by the hands of a Creator. Chance can simply not account for all this precision and marvel that we see. It is like arguing the odds of a wind=2 0blowing into a field of scrap metal and somehow forming a 747 airliner. Not only is this impossible, but if it were, who created the wind, the field, and the junk in the first place?



It appears that those that believe there is not God and believe that everything happened by chance via philosophical naturalism/macro-evolution take their philosophy on faith. The emails in response here have been filled with the same emotive religiosity that they accuse fanatical Christians. These folks may want to look at themselves from the same place that they judge others. All fanaticism fails, whether it is religious based or via Atheistic Evolution. We can look at this last century to know that more died for Social Darwinism than in any other age [Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc,]. If someone wants to make a claim, they better back it up with evidence; otherwise, it is mere superstition.

regards

To all of you who think it is only fair to put up the atheist display alongside the Nativity. How about this, next time MLK Jr. Day rolls around and we are celebrating his accomplishments with photos, statues, displays, let's be sure to put up a KKK display right along with it. Let's acknowledge their right to Hate just as we are acknowledging the atheist right to hate Christianity. I'm sure some will argue it isn't hate, that it is merely a different opinion. If so, then they would have sought to display this in February or some other random time. The fact that they feel the need to put it up at Christmas is definitely hateful.

For all of those who believe it is only just to have an atheist display alongside the nativity at Christmas....I have an idea. Next year when
MLK Jr. Day rolls around and we are displaying photos, unveiling statues, etc. to honor his great accomplishments (and he was an amazing man),let's be sure to put up some KKK signs alongside, complete with the "n" word. We want to be fair right. They are entitled to their opinion and their hate...right? Some may argue that the atheist position isn't one of hate. I disagree. If they sought to display this sign at any other time of the year, maybe I could agree. But, their timing reveals their true feelings.

Let's just make it simple. The atheist sign is "hate speech". Very clear, very simple. If they are atheist and have no belief in a deity, then why do they get to tromp on those who do have a belief? I'd like to know exactly WHO okayed this hate speech!

If I put up a sign like this and it referred to blacks, gays, muslim, or others in the fashion that this sign does, I'd be called a biggot (or worse!) If I thought atheists had any credibility, I no longer think that now.

The sign is mean spirited at a time when we could all use a bit more civility and kindness in our lives.

"Sign of the times" I guess.....pun intended!

to those who are offended by freedom of speech i would remind you of a few things 1st let it be stated i am a conservative born again evangelical
constitutionalist.

it seems to me that over 200 years ago when we adopted the right of freedom of speech we gave up any so called legal right not to be offended by what we hear or see in public and so here in our country we have the legal right to speak out

my friends that is not true in all countries of this world say for example if you go to a muslim country and say something against mohammad or the qurran that offends thier sensabilities you are a criminal and guilty of a capitol offence ( no pun intended ) and in most casses put to death BUT NOT IN AMERICA! at least not yet. now i know that there are people who are christians who would like the the athiests shut up but dear friends what christ tought us is that we should put up with opposing views even if they are factually and historically in correct and as christians we should not only put up with them but we should do it graciously respectfully kindly and lovingly.

now to those who believe in the myth of seperation of church and state its a myth the way the aclu has twisted thomas jeffersons letter to ther danberry baptists in coneticut

he said to fully protect our civil liberties
it becomes necessary that a wall of protection of the church from the state should be erected ..

and to those who say we where never intended to be a christian nation i would refer you back in time to anno domine 1620 november 11 in the narothern parts of virginia and the signing of the mayflour compact it beginnes in the name of god amen and for the promulgation and advancement of the christian faith and the proclaimation of the gospel of jesus christ etc and other purposes as well where the bases for comming here etc go to google.com and search for the complette text of the mayflour compact also look at our declearation of independance and the preambles of not only our federal constitution but that of all the states as well

so if we are to be a true christian nation then we christians must respect the rights of all persons even those who are not saved and we must do so lovingly while the non christians must also
equally respectfull of the rights of christians
and all americans should respect or christian herritage so as a christian my self i believe and equally fight for and support the rights of all to freely speak thier minds

but i must also say this to those for whom even the name jesus christ is AN OFFENSE ..

and by the way how many times have we heard the name of christ used in vain and where is the offense to that but yet in public when i preach the gospel and the love that jesus has for all i am told sometimes to shut up people are offended and while i should not purposefully offend any one i will not allow the fear of offending someone to shut me up either

so fellow christians when you hear the name of jesus in vain tell the person doing it i would remind you that christ died for you and loves you..

so to those who feel that those who dissagree with them should be shut up i say this you cant have freedom of speach for yourselves and not the other person you cant have it both ways you must either choose one or the other and if every thing offends you then perhapse you are in the wrong place that perhapse you should pack up your offence and ship it off to china and leave us alone

so while i believe that we where and somewhat still are a strong christian nation i also believe that the athiests ( even though i disagree with every thing that athiests stand for and believe ) none the less they have the right to speak thierminds as well
and let me say something about athiests and this so called freedom from religion foundation both are not even true unto them selves no one is truely free from religion and let me seperate christianity from religion ..

christianity is not a religion in the truest sence of the word religion is man made but true authentically lived christianity is is god made it is a relationship between god and those whom he has called unto himself

now about athiests and freedom from religion foundation etc you arent even true to yourselves you have a religious beliefe that nothing after this life exists how can that be a life get a life folkes get hope by getting christ

Just shows atheists are just as mean spirited as other fundamentalists. Just like evangelical republicans they believe its my way or the highway. So in fact they do have religion, just no spiritual life.

let me further state again i am a christian constitutionalist who supports and defends the rights of all with only a couple of exceptions and those exceptions are abortion and same sex marriage and civil unions i stand against abortion and against the gay and lesbian lifestyle not the person living the life style
but aside from those issues i believe that any us citizin has and should have the unconditional right to freely and openly and in public and on taxpayer owned property gov't buildings included to display what ever say what ever provided its is morally descent and in this case i dont find that what this sign said was hate speech or indecent it is simply a statement of thier opinion which is not factually based none the less they have the right to say it as do we all we cannot let our beeing offended preclude someone elses right to say something even if we are offended and or they are in any wrong to say it so to fellow christians out there one of the best ways to protect your/ our civil liberties is to also support the rights and civil libeties of non christians even if they say / display stuff that is an offense to you and me so lets learn to love athiests and all who are in dissagreement with us then they will see authentic christianity and may surrender thier lives to christ as well and lets learn to love them even if they persecute us

The display should have been allowed with one exception. When the display goes on the attack it crossed the line of freedom of religion to more of a "hate crime" attitude. We are all entitled to voice our opinions for and against topics, but a display for the christmas season needs to steer clear of this type of rhetoric.

To Demetris:

So you don't believe in evolution that man orginated from earlier more primitive species which has been scientificly proven?

I really hope you are not going to teach that stuff to my kids.

And no .. I'm not an atheist.

now that i have had a chance to read the full and complette text of this sign and now that i have the full info on it the governor clearly violated the establishment clause before i wrote the earlier blogs i only saw the phrase there is no god i did see the hate that i have heard of but as of this writtin i was able to find a picture of the sign and read it it is clear that the freedom from religion foundation has enguaged in hate speach while this orginisation and pro gay and lesbian groups ask us not too and we christians should not and true christians wont enguage in hate speach but when we are the victim of hate speach which we clearly are here and so i admit i should have dug harder for info before my previous blogs

and i will simply say this again to the athiests and pagans and freedom from religion foundation

IF YOU ARE SO OFFENDED BY OUR CHRISTIAN HERRITAGE
WHATS KEEPING YOU HER YOU ARE FREE AT ANY TIME TO LEAVE AS I SAID BEFORE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WHEN WE ADOPTED THE RIGHT OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH WHICH DOES NOT PROTECT HATE SPEECH WE GAVE UP ANY SO CALLED RIGHTS NOT TO BE OFFENDED
SO TO YOU ATHIESTS AND ALL ANTI CHRISTIAN FOLK
YOU CAN PACK UP YOUR OFFENSE AND SHIP IT OFF TO CHINA SO TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE THIS SIGN IS HATEFULL AND ILLEGAL I AM NOW AS A RESULT OF FURTHER DIGGING I AM ON YOUR SIDE SO ANY PORTION OF MY PREVIOUS BLOGS THAT ARE IN CONFLICT ON THIS ISSUE SHOULD BE DISREGARDED

The belief in the supernatural control way to many important aspects in people's life.

People who shop violate the sanctity of christianity. it is only for christians. people want to use the holiday for gain can't call it christams. let them call it paganday or whatever. we shoudl start a proposition banning non christians from using the word christmas and celibrating it since it is christians alone who can have it. everyone else is just a second class sodomite!

I feel that the sign is inappropriate. It is a statement of a belief, not a symbol of it. Now if the Christian and Jewish displays talked about non-believers, or had a statement against other religions then they might have a point to their display. The athiest statement is an insult to those who have faith in God. I fail to see the reason for the display other than a hate statement to people of faith.

I do not think this sign should be displayed. They call themselves the Freedom *from* Religion Foundation and therefore are not celebrating a religion or religious holiday, as opposed to other religions who wish to have symbols of their faith displayed.

The sign is offensive in wording and is disrespectful for those who want to remember the spiritual significance of the season. Governor Gregoire, I fully supported you in the election, but I have to admit that I am disappointed with you on this one.

This must be a misunderstanding on when to celebrate what. You see, the atheist believe that there is no God and my Bible says that; “The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
So let the fools have their signs and holiday as deserved, as just like Christmas… it comes once a year on April 1st. (We Christians promise not to post any signs at your celebrations)
As for you my fellow Christians, do not allow yourselves to be angered by atheist attacks on our God for His is the revenge. And I respectfully remind you all of the Holy Scriptures as they tell us, “A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult”. So let us not be annoyed and additionally remember this too, “Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.”
So be cheerful and rejoice for the Glory of our God is at hand.

Jaime

I am all for freedom of speech, but you have on tape that this is an "attack" on the Christian faith. I don't think it is smart for a government official to publicize an attack on anyone. As a Christian, I will be adding all atheists to my daily prayers - whether they like it or not.

It's time we stand up for God. Our country is founded under "God". Many immigrants enter into our country every year with their own beliefs, It seems to me people are happy to accept the many blessings God gives us in the United States, and yet don't want to give Him the credit and thanks for them. Pretty hypocritical. As for the comments on the "public Clamoring", it is not wrong to stand up for "Our God". If somebody deliberately insults someone else's family member you better believe that that person would defend their family. Why is it any different for God, Our Father. When somebody insults Him, they insult Me, and all of His Children.

This country is falling faster every day, and nobody can blame God Almighty for it. Homosexuality, abortions, and now this? If the United States turns it's back on Him, then let the U.S. fall. For the record, these atheists do not speak for the rest of us.
The day of God's wrath is right around the corner. Jesus Christ will come again. God speaks too, except when God says something (or someone) doesn't exist, it comes "true". These people living in denial better watch out, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. God has certainly given us enough time.
...Unto him who blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. Luke 12:10.

It's time we stand up for God. Our country is founded under "God". Many immigrants enter into our country every year with their own beliefs, It seems to me people are happy to accept the many blessings God gives us in the United States, and yet don't want to give Him the credit and thanks for them. Pretty hypocritical. As for the comments on the "public Clamoring", it is not wrong to stand up for "Our God". If somebody deliberately insults someone else's family member you better believe that that person would defend their family. Why is it any different for God, Our Father. When somebody insults Him, they insult Me, and all of His Children.

This country is falling faster every day, and nobody can blame God Almighty for it. Homosexuality, abortions, and now this? If the United States turns it's back on Him, then let the U.S. fall. For the record, these atheists do not speak for the rest of us.
The day of God's wrath is right around the corner. Jesus Christ will come again. God speaks too, except when God says something (or someone) doesn't exist, it comes "true". These people living in denial better watch out, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. God has certainly given us enough time.
...Unto him who blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. Luke 12:10.

CAREFUL ATHEIST...
WHAT IF GOD SAID "YOU" DON'T EXIST?
I GUARANTEE HIS WORD "COMES TRUE". Something to think about.

OF COURSE! It's America because we have freedom of speech. It would be UN AMERICAN to tell ANYONE they couldn't have their religion represented. It's rediculous.

Have we nothing better to do with the States money? The issue at hand is not a court issue, although it will be in the courts sometime soon, becouse someones right was violated. Our GREAT country the (U.S.A.) was founded by Christian. Our Dcloration of Independance, the Bill of rights, and the constitution was all based on the rights given us by GOD, not the governing body. The more I see what is going on in the World the closer the Bible is to being fulfilled. Don't believe me read the GOOD book for yourself. The prophies in the book of Revolations are one by one being fulfilled. Praise the Lord I won't have to be here for ever, and suffer through the tribulation time.

I think it is funny that the atheists who make these signs say that religion and a belief in God hardens peoples hearts. They are the ones with hardened hearts,they do whatever they can to make people who have faith in something feel stupid. I understand that it is easy to believe in facts and things you can see with your own eyes, but belief in something that is not able to be seen by the human eye doesn't make you stupid. This would mean that every single President that we have had in the United States has been idiots. People who live their lives according to their religion are doing so because they are ordered by their God. Atheist live their lives according to what the everchanging world tells them to. For example, the acceptance of gays in our society. In 1920 athiest did not aprove of such a thing but nowadays because society says that it is okay, now they do. Maybe 100yrs from now the world will be accepting of adults who were born with a desire to be with small children. These are things that people of faith don't have to worry about changing, they just live their life according to their religion. If you think about it the atheist is the one that is lost and hasn't found meaning in their life. Leave those alone who have found a purpose and continue to search for yours. Don't be gealous of people who have found comfort and happiness in their god, be the loving accepting person your sign is trying to portray you as, but don't disinfranchise about 90% of the world by doing so. There is no fact to answer the questions of infinite regress, to me there is only the obvious wich you are unable to see.

You know, I think I have to agree with Donna above who talks about not trying to please everyone, which is exactly what is happening here. This is a state office building, not a church, synagogue, or mosque. Therefore, given separation of church and state, I honestly think it is best for religious displays not to be there...and it would avoid all this conflict. Otherwise, this type of controversy could go on and on...next thing you know, somebody will want to put up some sort of pornographic display and try to give it a religious spin.

I think a Christmas tree should be it as that is secular enough.

The nativity scene and the 'holiday' tree do not actively persue to denegrate others' beliefs, the two displays merely exist visually. The Atheist poster uses clear and consise words to knock down the religious beliefs of others. It has been noted several times on this blog that the Atheist poster does not meet the legal definiton of religion and likely is displayed in error. I see a lawsuit coming.

How long is it going to be before we see Satanic religions requesting fair play? Next year should be an interesting 'holiday' season at the Rotunda with every nutjob, far-out 'religious' group wanting something displayed. ONLY IN WASHINGTON. I am embarrassed for our leaders and the citizens of out state.

so now that the sign has been stolen are they going to be mad because somebody out there dont believe in the 10 commandments?

Yes, it should be allowed to be displayed. The government cannot give preferential treatment to one religious group. Just as it would be unconstitutional to allow the nativity scene but not a menorah, it is unconstitutional to allow Christians to express their views but not Atheists. To say that this sign should not be allowed because it is "offensive" is also incorrect, people DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO NOT BE OFFENDED. That's one of the prices of free speech, and to think that a nativity doesn't offend someone is nothing less than arrogant. This is not a country founded on "Christian values" by "Christian People" for a "Christian government". If it was we would be living in a theocracy with the bible as the book of law. This country was founded for the freedom of religion as well as the freedom FROM religion.

It truly amazes me how so many people have responded in ignorance.......such statements as there is no proof of jesus and calling him a myth shows that they are oblivious to any intelligence and have definitely not studied anything...............no matter what is said or done..........GOD WINS.........READ THE LAST BOOK!

Don't people realize the more they protest or object to Atheist Sign the more attention it actually receives? Look at the media attention it's already received! Not to mention, The Nativity scene is still at the Capitol. No small feat, in a country that has had to remove Ten Commandments monuments from public places. AsS far as O'reilly's tirade against the Governor's decision - Get a Life!

Have we all lost the fear of God? I guess we think since we've taken college courses and have degrees that we know all about God and Christians. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!" (Prov. 1:7) I pray that your hearts will be changed to know and love God.

Yes, regardless of what anyone believes, this country has freedom of speech. Personally, I am atheist and get disrespected on a daily basis because of it. The government does not allow or forbid things because they are "offensive". This sign was just a form of exercising our freedoms. No one restricts those of other religions of stating their personal ideas, and this should be true with atheism as well.

Hmmm...

In the U.S., there are hundreds, if not thousands of religions.

If there are public Christmas displays including nativity scenes, it is not fair, (or legal), to exclude any of the other religions from placing their own display, and that includes atheist beliefs.

This whole thing in Olympia would be very funny if it were not so serious.

It seems like many people are OK with religious displays, as long as it is in tune with THEIR personal philosophies and religious thinking.

It is probably the same thing with religion or prayer in schools – they are OK with it, as long as it is THEIR religion and prayers.

Can you imagine what would happen if the daily prayer in school had to be Muslim, or Buddhist, or any of hundreds of other religions, instead of the mainstream Christian religions?

Many folks are quick to mention “The First Amendment,” without fully realizing exactly what that means.

Here it is: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

That is it; and, it means, quite simply, that all religions are welcome, even the ones you might not like.

It does not give any pecking order.

For those who do not know it, Thomas Jefferson was THE principle writer of the Declaration of Independence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson.

Sources say, “The roots of the First Amendment can be traced to a bill written by Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) in 1777 and proposed to the Virginia Legislature in 1779. It guaranteed freedom of (AND FROM) religion. After an impassioned speech by James Madison, and after some amendments, it became law on 1786-JAN-16.”

In simple terms, public religious displays on government property should welcome all, or none. There cannot be a "pick and choose."

If there is not room in the display area to accommodate the individual item from several hundred religions, there should be more room. If that is not possible, then do not display any religious exhibits.

My VOTE is to keep the holiday decorations as simple as possible.

However, even a Yule Log, or a display of conifer greens and holly, tracks back to Druids and Pagans – which predate Christianity, by the way.

Most people would condemn a religious display by Pagans or Druids, yet those religions are part of, and guaranteed by, the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

The Christians want to keep Christ in Christmas, and that is their right to do that.

However, the Christian religions are not the only religions, and they need to recognize that – the sooner, the better.

After all, it IS 2008, going on 2009.

What a silly question.

How many Christians believe in Mars, or Zeus, or Mercury? - Are these not Gods ?

So if nt beleiving in "Gods" makes you an athiest, then wouldnt christians also be atiests also?

And if christians are athiests denouncing other gods - then why cant somebody put something up denouncing their god?

The Pilgrims wouldnt of allowed a manger, nor sign - they hated xmas and easter.

I am Agonistic I believe in a greater being but not a Christan God or a Muslim Allah, or a Buddhist Buddha, or whatever name you give "GOD" Christmas originally came from the winter festival of Yule (Pagan) I question many religions why so many path to the same "GOD", this is the main reason for so much conflict around the world because no one can agree on this. One day maybe we all will be enlightened, we will see for ourselves where we came from even if it is from another planet.

No one knows the truth no one knows the correct path, no one knows who put us here. For all we know this can be HELL or even HEAVEN, no one knows. YET but when we all are ready, we all will see, this was all for NAUGHT.

Just wait, we are not ready, too much conflict right now.

Suntop

If the intent of the sign is to hurt or belittle others it should not be allowed.

On the other hand, Christians should be more tolerant if they truly believe in brotherly love.

Check out this link:
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=978838f900caad5e422d

Again I refer all christians to their history. WWII was fought over religion...The Holocaust was Christians trying to eliminate all other races and creeds. We've distorted the real facts since the war to make it so as the NAZI's alone were responsible for these atrocities, however the truth is that big Swastika was a christian symbol bastardized by a particular sect of christians out to fanatically destroy any other opposing race or creed. So, We MUST ALLOW all Philosophical Beliefs and Systems in order to enjoy our freedoms #1. If you are a christian and have a fundamental opposition to Science Please consider getting rid of your computer and any other technological device you possess and become Amish. Remember your religious beliefs you so adamantly profess, "I will spit you out if you are merely luke warm in your faith !" Supposedly Jesus was very serious about this. You should be learning the meaning of your professed philosophy rather than spouting trivial feelings without any backing in serious study. The more you know about your philosophy that you profess it is more likely that you will realize how primitive and troglodytea you are. Don't ya just hate it when a person can quote to you from your philosophy or BS(Belief System) and make you look like a cave man staring at the moon. Please stay in school read and study your science, languages, and history you might be surprised by the knowledge you pick up. vita diu et prospera bonoque fortuna...

I just thought the Atheist sign was about as friendly and full of good-will as a slap in the face. Happy Holidays to you, too.

WHO CARES? Why is this news worthy? The media overplays this thing every year and adds credence to both aurguments, as well as detracting & distracting the public from real news. I would rather hear about the rich lawers who get elected to govern the majority poor or the CEO's of the 3 largest employers & producers of cars whine about having to streamline & actually make a profit for the company rather than themselves. Get a life people, since the dawn of civilization religion, or mystical belifes, have been the root of genocide, disease, famine, and pesecution do any of you think that is gonna change any day soon? So get over yourselves and dialog about something that really matters.

Brian (December 20, 2008 1:31 AM): Best post ever... :-) In general, every time I see something like this on the news - some lame attempt to draw attention being picked up on the media; or when I'm at a checkstand in grocery store and see all those magazines about which actress is pregnant and who cheats on who, "WHO (the f*ck) CARES?!" is pretty much the only thing on my mind...