Two deadly bike crashes in two weeks have Portland bicyclists and drivers pointing fingers.
Who do you believe is at fault for most accidents between bicyclists and cars?
21 Comments
Casey said:
Consistently I see bicyclists blatantly disregarding the rules of the road. Absolutely no signals before stopping or turning - crossing multiple lanes at once... Even on your program tonight, the large group of bicyclists shown in Idaho honoring the most recent accident are seen ignoring the yellow light, and running the red light! I am sorry to say - but by not following the rules of the road, I see more fault by bicyclists then cars.
Myung Hong said:
I bike as the weather permits about 29 miles each way to work (Black Diamond to downtown Bellevue). Not all drivers look for (or expect to see) bicycles on the road (or around the crossroads). I use blinking taillights at all time, and headlights at night. Many bicyclists don't use any lights at all. I haven't had any close calls in the past one year. It is everyone's responsibility to watch for each other. Use hand signals and double check your right and left before you cross the road. Again, not all drivers expect bicyclists. After all, you lose when the two meet face to face.
carol said:
Anyone who believes the bicyclists are not the guilty ones here has never driven in downtown Portland. I see them riding down 4th avenue---in the middle lane no less. They cannot keep up with cars so there is always a line of cars behind them trying to change lanes. They blatantly disregard traffic signals and flip drivers off at the drop of a hat.
They are a nuisance that the city government created. When there is a fatal accident, we need to blame the two parties that made this mess: the bicyclists and city hall.
Roads are for cars. When bicyclists start paying road taxes, then we'll talk.
Randy said:
This question you pose to your listeners and readers is senseless and will only invite critism and finger pointing. "who do you believe is at fault" will do nothing towards creating thought provoking ideas and solutions. (Guess it worked, your senseless question got me motivated to reply).
How about something like "how do you feel motorists and cyclist can better share the road"?
Far too many cyclist do not obey the law, and the vast majority of motor vehicle operators are clueless as to the rights to the road of cyclists.
More education for drivers, traffic tickets for cyclists not obeying the law.
Most drivers do not even know cyclist actually have right to ride in the road, and too many cyclists think they are exempt from obeying traffic signs and signals. (I am ashamed by those cyclists, I cycle daily too and from work, and am employed within the bicycle industry).
Joe said:
Just for exercize. Were to to investigate every Auto / bicycle accident with the perspective that they both are roadway transpotation of equal rights, privledges and responsibilities ( both cars or both bikes or both busses ) I think you would find the opperator at fault would track back to the bicyclist. On a motorcycle I must deal with both autos and bikes going thier own way with little regard for any unlike themself. Current coventional perception is that the smaller you are and the least invested you are the more rights you have to unconditionally pardonable offences.
Kuni said:
I love Seattle. However, my pet peeves are bicyclists and pedestrians. They both think everyone needs to look out for them. Stop, look, and listen are foreign words to them. I have seen pedestrians step out from behind bushes onto the street looking neither left nor right. I have seen a pedestrian walk down the middle of a street with his back to the heaviest traffic. There are those who will step off the curb with the No Walk blinking and leisurly make his way to the other side. Arrogant and stupid!!!
Stina said:
Driving a vehicle takes skill, defensiveness and all your senses. When riding a bicycle, these things should come into play also....People riding bicycles need to be aware they are not motorized vehicles but should obey the rules as though they were. If they plan on riding on the roads, ALL laws pertaining to motorized vehicles should be obeyed and not change from this to what a pedestrian would do. In other words, if they approach a red light, they should stop and wait for the light to change and not move to the cross street and ride through where pedestrians are to cross. Bicylists can not move from motorized vehicle to pedestrian status whenever it suits them!
John said:
What happened to the days when people riding bicyles on the road, needed to license the bikes? My proposal to stop many headaches would be to make bicylists take a written and driving exam in order to get a license to ride on the roads and go back to licensing bikes. Also, helmets are a MUST for riding bicycles.
Phil said:
I have been driving for 35 years professionally. One of the Major teaching points to driving a vehicle without becoming an accident statistic is defensive driving. Over the years I would say that only 20% of bike riders I have shared the road with ride defensively and ride in designated bike lanes. Its almost as if they feel they have a license to run lights, ride on opposite sides of designated bike lanes and weave in and out of heavy traffic without threat of citation. Why not Hmmmrequire a bike license or a mandatory eight hour course to operate a bike on the road with motor vehicles. The class could teach defensive riding, rules of the road etc. A fee should be charged to bike riders and a portion would go for bike paths and any necessary upgrades to the current riding areas. Why should motor vehicles be taxed to pay for bike paths and bike areas that are not used and a non existing bike rider policing system. I imagine the average vehicle weighs 3500 lbs and the average bike rider weighs about 175 lbs. Both obviously need to be alert and aware on the road.
gary wollam said:
I'm sorry to say that where I reside the bikers are way in the majority in the wrong. The vast majority of those i have encountered will not and do not pay attention to stop sighns, stop lights and just plain rules of the road. Tax them a user fee and license fees maybe that would help , but I seriously doght it. Please don't get me wrong it is a tragedy when anyone dies that way, but maybe taking a driver education course for cyclists and a riders test like you take to get a license for driving a car, who knows.
gary said:
I live in Eugene we have alot of bikers here and they don't follow the rules at all.It is a very hot issue here we have had bikers hit and killed by trucks and cars!This is a problem that both the bikers and drivers need to work on btu the city's need to sddress these problems,outlying roads are very narrow and bikers love them.Well there are alot of trucks on the backroads of all states and it is very hard to slow down a 105000 pound semi when a car is coming at you and a biker doing 10 miles an hour is in the middle of the road!please we need help out here,cars and trucks pay alot of road taxes how about bikers!
Jordan said:
As long as you have cyclists blatantly ignoring the rules of the road coupled with the absence of the will to enforce these laws you have to ask what consequences might be expected.
Astra said:
I think we all know that the best answer-- but separate bike paths or lanes just aren't going to happen in today's economy. The costs would be staggering and the public at large isn't going to pay for it. I think the only answer at this time is that cyclists be required to have headlights, taillights, signals and brake lights like cars do and that they be required to use them with the same penalties that auto drivers face for not using them. I also believe that cyclists should be required to carry insurance just like auto drivers so that when there is an accident (note I did not say if) that all parties would be covered. I know that cyclists would scream loudly at the expense, but if they are going to use the same roads they need to obey the same laws as automobile drivers--including the requirements for headlights, visible signal lights, brake lights and insurance. Perhaps if cyclists are held accountable for the accidents and havoc they wreak, they will learn that they have to take responsibility for what they do. No one has should have special rights, every one should have equal rights and responsibilities if they are using the same roads and that includes cyclists.
Joyce said:
I live in Ashland and we have lots of people riding bicycles. Most riders that I encounter are not wearing helmets(or shoes for that matter)they have jumped the curbs, crossed against the traffic light and even kicked the side of my car. They seem to not care about obeying the rules of the road. We have a lot of bike lanes here, but some riders will still ride in the lane of traffic slowing it down to a crawl. I feel if you're riding a bicycle next to a big truck even if you're in the "bike lane" you should assume that the driver can't see you and should slow down or stop just to be on the safe side.
Bicycle Bob said:
The answers are just what I would have expected from a mostly ignorant
population and a question designed to create heated finger pointing.
Most people hate their commutes so if your were to ask a question like
that about most anything people hate (like waiting in the security
line at the airport and they let wheelchairs go straight to the front,
or waiting in grocery shopping lines and another register opens and
some people behind you get in it) I would expect just as hateful and
ignorant responses. As proven by these responses, most people who
answer a question like this are ignorant and unaware of all the laws &
ins and outs. People are highly motivated by emotion and usually have
a very personal bias that is not based on laws, courtesy, respect or
care for other people...I could go on about shit like this all night.
Most of these hateful responses sounded like good Christian formatted
responses. I wish I could fall back on my hateful Christian
programming and set my mind on something(or HAVE my mind set) and just
be convinced and feel justified...but alas I despise those losers and
try to be open minded.
PS A good Christian saying comes to mind..."An open mind is an open
door to the devil"
Daler said:
Hmmm... One of my favorite gripe subjects. First off, I remember when they made a law to move bicyclers from the sidewalks to the road. They made that rule because too many pedestrians were being injured by cyclists. Wow... What a concept. Now they are dying and everyone is bitching about it. Now your children are riding bikes in the streets to go visit their friends. Are you really comfortable with that? I'm not.
One thing, everyone is suggesting taxation of bicyclists. Is that adult recreational cyclists, kids bikes, adult exercise bikes? Where do we draw the line? Most of the problems come from the Spandex clad cyclists that ride all over all of our roads.
My opinion - there should be a state tax imposed at the point of sale for all bicycles over 24 inches in height and nominal to the price of the bike. That way your professional riders, that are the ones mostly in our way on the roads, are paying their fair shares.
Also; Cyclists need to keep their front tires 2 feet or more to the outside of the fog line. This riding down the white line on the side, with a 5 foot wide shoulder, is a load of you-know-what. I am sick and tired having to move closer to onciming traffic to give them that space when they could be the one moving. It's ridiculous!!! Also; I'm sure it would save some lives out there if these people were NOT allowed to ride on any roads that have no shoulder. They should be allowed only on roads that have a minimum shoulder of 5 feet wide. The entire length of the road.
To the cyclists - I am only this bitter about this because I DON"T want to hurt you or kill you. It's my concience you are dealing with. If I run over you, I will walk away from it because I'm in a car. Chances are you won't. Respect is a two way street. I will always avoid you on the road, PLEASE avoid roads that put everyone in jeopardy.
Daler said:
Well I tell you what, Bicycle Bob. Your lame reaction of trying to make all the rest of us out to be idiots, is exactly what we would expect. What makes you think you are so smart? I have a college education and worked for a local airplane manufacturer in engineering for about 20 years and I have 40 years of driving experience and avoiding bicyclers like you that are in places that they should not be. So, do you want to match wits or would you rather calm down your reaction just a bit? Be glad I don't point the wrong finger at you when I try to drive around you.
Avid Cyclist said:
It is a responsibility to share a thoroughfare with pedestrians, cyclists and motorized vehicles. Pedestrians have to be wary of their surroundings, cyclists for pedestrians and motorized vehicles, and motorized vehicles for pedestrians and cyclists. Consideration and awareness on the road for the next person is paramount and maybe that is ultimately what is at the root of the problem.
As an avid cyclist I have been almost run off the road by both cyclists and vehicles. I have had to dismount my bike because a pedestrian chose not to get out of the way on a shared bicycle and pedestrian path. Instead of placing blame, let's take responsibilty for our own actions and 'share' the road.
Daler said:
Paths are one thing, I should not have to share the road in places where you are riding 20 mph in lanes with no shoulders and the cars are doing 40 - 50 mph. It is illegal for a vehicle to do less than the speed limit to the point of hindering the flow of the traffic. What makes a bicyclers any better?
jhuft said:
I think astra has the most common sense so far.....cyclists....register your bikes then the money that is collected can provide a safe place for you to be....... for all those concerned....and only the people who ride on the street in traffic would have to worry about having to pay any kind of registration fee...And I Think insurance is a grand idea.....B}
jhuft said:
I think that any thing you can get any kind of UII on or in should be registered and insured.......
Consistently I see bicyclists blatantly disregarding the rules of the road. Absolutely no signals before stopping or turning - crossing multiple lanes at once... Even on your program tonight, the large group of bicyclists shown in Idaho honoring the most recent accident are seen ignoring the yellow light, and running the red light! I am sorry to say - but by not following the rules of the road, I see more fault by bicyclists then cars.
I bike as the weather permits about 29 miles each way to work (Black Diamond to downtown Bellevue). Not all drivers look for (or expect to see) bicycles on the road (or around the crossroads). I use blinking taillights at all time, and headlights at night. Many bicyclists don't use any lights at all. I haven't had any close calls in the past one year. It is everyone's responsibility to watch for each other. Use hand signals and double check your right and left before you cross the road. Again, not all drivers expect bicyclists. After all, you lose when the two meet face to face.
Anyone who believes the bicyclists are not the guilty ones here has never driven in downtown Portland. I see them riding down 4th avenue---in the middle lane no less. They cannot keep up with cars so there is always a line of cars behind them trying to change lanes. They blatantly disregard traffic signals and flip drivers off at the drop of a hat.
They are a nuisance that the city government created. When there is a fatal accident, we need to blame the two parties that made this mess: the bicyclists and city hall.
Roads are for cars. When bicyclists start paying road taxes, then we'll talk.
This question you pose to your listeners and readers is senseless and will only invite critism and finger pointing. "who do you believe is at fault" will do nothing towards creating thought provoking ideas and solutions. (Guess it worked, your senseless question got me motivated to reply).
How about something like "how do you feel motorists and cyclist can better share the road"?
Far too many cyclist do not obey the law, and the vast majority of motor vehicle operators are clueless as to the rights to the road of cyclists.
More education for drivers, traffic tickets for cyclists not obeying the law.
Most drivers do not even know cyclist actually have right to ride in the road, and too many cyclists think they are exempt from obeying traffic signs and signals. (I am ashamed by those cyclists, I cycle daily too and from work, and am employed within the bicycle industry).
Just for exercize. Were to to investigate every Auto / bicycle accident with the perspective that they both are roadway transpotation of equal rights, privledges and responsibilities ( both cars or both bikes or both busses ) I think you would find the opperator at fault would track back to the bicyclist. On a motorcycle I must deal with both autos and bikes going thier own way with little regard for any unlike themself. Current coventional perception is that the smaller you are and the least invested you are the more rights you have to unconditionally pardonable offences.
I love Seattle. However, my pet peeves are bicyclists and pedestrians. They both think everyone needs to look out for them. Stop, look, and listen are foreign words to them. I have seen pedestrians step out from behind bushes onto the street looking neither left nor right. I have seen a pedestrian walk down the middle of a street with his back to the heaviest traffic. There are those who will step off the curb with the No Walk blinking and leisurly make his way to the other side. Arrogant and stupid!!!
Driving a vehicle takes skill, defensiveness and all your senses. When riding a bicycle, these things should come into play also....People riding bicycles need to be aware they are not motorized vehicles but should obey the rules as though they were. If they plan on riding on the roads, ALL laws pertaining to motorized vehicles should be obeyed and not change from this to what a pedestrian would do. In other words, if they approach a red light, they should stop and wait for the light to change and not move to the cross street and ride through where pedestrians are to cross. Bicylists can not move from motorized vehicle to pedestrian status whenever it suits them!
What happened to the days when people riding bicyles on the road, needed to license the bikes? My proposal to stop many headaches would be to make bicylists take a written and driving exam in order to get a license to ride on the roads and go back to licensing bikes. Also, helmets are a MUST for riding bicycles.
I have been driving for 35 years professionally. One of the Major teaching points to driving a vehicle without becoming an accident statistic is defensive driving. Over the years I would say that only 20% of bike riders I have shared the road with ride defensively and ride in designated bike lanes. Its almost as if they feel they have a license to run lights, ride on opposite sides of designated bike lanes and weave in and out of heavy traffic without threat of citation. Why not Hmmmrequire a bike license or a mandatory eight hour course to operate a bike on the road with motor vehicles. The class could teach defensive riding, rules of the road etc. A fee should be charged to bike riders and a portion would go for bike paths and any necessary upgrades to the current riding areas. Why should motor vehicles be taxed to pay for bike paths and bike areas that are not used and a non existing bike rider policing system. I imagine the average vehicle weighs 3500 lbs and the average bike rider weighs about 175 lbs. Both obviously need to be alert and aware on the road.
I'm sorry to say that where I reside the bikers are way in the majority in the wrong. The vast majority of those i have encountered will not and do not pay attention to stop sighns, stop lights and just plain rules of the road. Tax them a user fee and license fees maybe that would help , but I seriously doght it. Please don't get me wrong it is a tragedy when anyone dies that way, but maybe taking a driver education course for cyclists and a riders test like you take to get a license for driving a car, who knows.
I live in Eugene we have alot of bikers here and they don't follow the rules at all.It is a very hot issue here we have had bikers hit and killed by trucks and cars!This is a problem that both the bikers and drivers need to work on btu the city's need to sddress these problems,outlying roads are very narrow and bikers love them.Well there are alot of trucks on the backroads of all states and it is very hard to slow down a 105000 pound semi when a car is coming at you and a biker doing 10 miles an hour is in the middle of the road!please we need help out here,cars and trucks pay alot of road taxes how about bikers!
As long as you have cyclists blatantly ignoring the rules of the road coupled with the absence of the will to enforce these laws you have to ask what consequences might be expected.
I think we all know that the best answer-- but separate bike paths or lanes just aren't going to happen in today's economy. The costs would be staggering and the public at large isn't going to pay for it. I think the only answer at this time is that cyclists be required to have headlights, taillights, signals and brake lights like cars do and that they be required to use them with the same penalties that auto drivers face for not using them. I also believe that cyclists should be required to carry insurance just like auto drivers so that when there is an accident (note I did not say if) that all parties would be covered. I know that cyclists would scream loudly at the expense, but if they are going to use the same roads they need to obey the same laws as automobile drivers--including the requirements for headlights, visible signal lights, brake lights and insurance. Perhaps if cyclists are held accountable for the accidents and havoc they wreak, they will learn that they have to take responsibility for what they do. No one has should have special rights, every one should have equal rights and responsibilities if they are using the same roads and that includes cyclists.
I live in Ashland and we have lots of people riding bicycles. Most riders that I encounter are not wearing helmets(or shoes for that matter)they have jumped the curbs, crossed against the traffic light and even kicked the side of my car. They seem to not care about obeying the rules of the road. We have a lot of bike lanes here, but some riders will still ride in the lane of traffic slowing it down to a crawl. I feel if you're riding a bicycle next to a big truck even if you're in the "bike lane" you should assume that the driver can't see you and should slow down or stop just to be on the safe side.
The answers are just what I would have expected from a mostly ignorant
population and a question designed to create heated finger pointing.
Most people hate their commutes so if your were to ask a question like
that about most anything people hate (like waiting in the security
line at the airport and they let wheelchairs go straight to the front,
or waiting in grocery shopping lines and another register opens and
some people behind you get in it) I would expect just as hateful and
ignorant responses. As proven by these responses, most people who
answer a question like this are ignorant and unaware of all the laws &
ins and outs. People are highly motivated by emotion and usually have
a very personal bias that is not based on laws, courtesy, respect or
care for other people...I could go on about shit like this all night.
Most of these hateful responses sounded like good Christian formatted
responses. I wish I could fall back on my hateful Christian
programming and set my mind on something(or HAVE my mind set) and just
be convinced and feel justified...but alas I despise those losers and
try to be open minded.
PS A good Christian saying comes to mind..."An open mind is an open
door to the devil"
Hmmm... One of my favorite gripe subjects. First off, I remember when they made a law to move bicyclers from the sidewalks to the road. They made that rule because too many pedestrians were being injured by cyclists. Wow... What a concept. Now they are dying and everyone is bitching about it. Now your children are riding bikes in the streets to go visit their friends. Are you really comfortable with that? I'm not.
One thing, everyone is suggesting taxation of bicyclists. Is that adult recreational cyclists, kids bikes, adult exercise bikes? Where do we draw the line? Most of the problems come from the Spandex clad cyclists that ride all over all of our roads.
My opinion - there should be a state tax imposed at the point of sale for all bicycles over 24 inches in height and nominal to the price of the bike. That way your professional riders, that are the ones mostly in our way on the roads, are paying their fair shares.
Also; Cyclists need to keep their front tires 2 feet or more to the outside of the fog line. This riding down the white line on the side, with a 5 foot wide shoulder, is a load of you-know-what. I am sick and tired having to move closer to onciming traffic to give them that space when they could be the one moving. It's ridiculous!!! Also; I'm sure it would save some lives out there if these people were NOT allowed to ride on any roads that have no shoulder. They should be allowed only on roads that have a minimum shoulder of 5 feet wide. The entire length of the road.
To the cyclists - I am only this bitter about this because I DON"T want to hurt you or kill you. It's my concience you are dealing with. If I run over you, I will walk away from it because I'm in a car. Chances are you won't. Respect is a two way street. I will always avoid you on the road, PLEASE avoid roads that put everyone in jeopardy.
Well I tell you what, Bicycle Bob. Your lame reaction of trying to make all the rest of us out to be idiots, is exactly what we would expect. What makes you think you are so smart? I have a college education and worked for a local airplane manufacturer in engineering for about 20 years and I have 40 years of driving experience and avoiding bicyclers like you that are in places that they should not be. So, do you want to match wits or would you rather calm down your reaction just a bit? Be glad I don't point the wrong finger at you when I try to drive around you.
It is a responsibility to share a thoroughfare with pedestrians, cyclists and motorized vehicles. Pedestrians have to be wary of their surroundings, cyclists for pedestrians and motorized vehicles, and motorized vehicles for pedestrians and cyclists. Consideration and awareness on the road for the next person is paramount and maybe that is ultimately what is at the root of the problem.
As an avid cyclist I have been almost run off the road by both cyclists and vehicles. I have had to dismount my bike because a pedestrian chose not to get out of the way on a shared bicycle and pedestrian path. Instead of placing blame, let's take responsibilty for our own actions and 'share' the road.
Paths are one thing, I should not have to share the road in places where you are riding 20 mph in lanes with no shoulders and the cars are doing 40 - 50 mph. It is illegal for a vehicle to do less than the speed limit to the point of hindering the flow of the traffic. What makes a bicyclers any better?
I think astra has the most common sense so far.....cyclists....register your bikes then the money that is collected can provide a safe place for you to be....... for all those concerned....and only the people who ride on the street in traffic would have to worry about having to pay any kind of registration fee...And I Think insurance is a grand idea.....B}
I think that any thing you can get any kind of UII on or in should be registered and insured.......