I couldn't support my child after using profanity in a situation like that. Little miss 'pink' wanna be- wanted more of the spotlight after her solo.

The teacher should also be barred from attending any ceremony. The student and her mother had complained about this teacher in the past and (naturally) were ignored by the school administrators. I think they chose a good way to make their point and be heard. They now also have very good grounds for a lawsuit against the school and the teacher who harassed her students throughout the school year. Kudos to the brave actions of Savannah and her mom!
The previous poster starts out "I couldn't support my child..." Yes, I believe you wouldn't. There are some "parents" that would sit back and let the school system destroy their children and will even side with them against their own child. I guess it's easier to let "the village" raise your child, plus you don't have to take any responsibility for the outcome. But don't call yourself a parent!
Parents support their children, even when they might not agree with them. In this case, Savannah was lucky to have an active, supporting parent, not a weak absentee-parent who would throw them to the mercy of the politically correct bureaucratic machine.

It sounds like the principle has been protecting the teacher since there are multiple students confirming that the teacher does curse in class. When going through all the "official" channels doesn't work, sometimes you are forced to make a scene like this to get an issue addressed. While cursing like that in front of so many families at that young of an age isn't great, leaving a teacher unpunished for subjecting students, especially middle school students, to that on a daily basis is much worse. The student was brave and I'm glad to see her mother supporting her.

I am writing to bring attention to events leading up to an event involving the ten-day suspension of my eighth grade daughter, Savannah Larson during the Monticello choir/orchestra/band spring concert.
Since her transfer to Monticello last year, Savannah has almost daily repeated to me shocking stories about the behavior and conduct of her choir teacher, Connie Noakes. Mrs. Noakes' criticisms of her students involve intimidating, yelling, name calling, bullying, SWEARING, and STORMING out of the classroom during session NOT to return, THROWING objects in FITS OF OUTRAGE- particularly abusive behaviors as they were coming from an educator. The poor conduct continues on a regular basis.
Last week alone Connie Noakes threw her stack of music folders onto the ground, and was heard to scream "(Michael) G**D***IT! Get your A** into the hall!" She slammed the door behind the frightened seventh grade boy, and shoved a portable whiteboard after him, only to crash into the door behind him.
Another student (Ryan) was screamed at, "Why won't you F***ING LISTEN?!!" when he was mistaken for another student working with her instrument.
In another instance, Mrs. Noakes beat the piano with her fist because another student (Travis) used it to rest his elbow on. Travis is no longer allowed the opportunity to develop his abilities in the musical arts, because like other unfortunate students who caught her on a bad day, he was kicked out of her class.
Because I have been continually regaled with these shocking stories, I have made repeated efforts to lodge complaints against Connie Noakes to Monticello's vice principal, Bill Ofstun, only to be led around in circles and redirected to the teacher herself. I have met with the teacher, who has told me," I don't deny that I've said those things, but you have to realize what I'm up against."
My daughter, Savannah, has also made many attempts to report the behavior, but on most cases, Mr. would not make himself available to him. On one occasion that she did have the opportunity to make contact with him, she told him of these issues and asked, frustrated, "What DOES it take to get a teacher fired?" Mr. Ofstun hedged and finally replied, "Well, its just really hard to do."
After two years of abusive conduct, Savannah was excited to end her time at Monticello as an honor student, known for good citizenship and to be a credible thirteen year old. She had worked very hard with her private voice tutor, Barbara Futrell, and had earned a place in the advanced choir for next year as she entered high school. She had even won top awards (withheld from her by Connie Noakes) in a District-wide Solo and Ensemble Contest.
On June 5th, Savannah was to open the Spring concert by performing a piece she had been working on independently with her private tutor. She began by thanking her tutor and the school accompanist, Mrs. Long. She performed the advanced piece, beautifully. She was enchanting. Afterwards, she said into the microphone, "I forgot to thank my wonderfully choir teacher, Mrs. Noakes, for all that she's taught me these past couple of years; like always knowing what to say in any situation, like, "G**d***it! Get your a** out into the hall! Why won't you f****** listen? I don't care if you learn or not- I get paid either way!" She stepped out of her choir gown and left the concert.
Let me remind you, Savannah has NEVER been a discipline case in school.
Before the first bell rang on Wednesday, she was apprehended by Mr. Ofstun and sent to his office. Savannah refused to talk with him until I could be contacted and was present with her. When I arrived, We were told immediately that she was looking at an emergency expulsion. I reminded Mr. Ofstun that we had come to him repeatedly with this issue; why was Savannah being reprimanded for repeating what an educator, entrusted to be a moral example to her students had said? If Savannah's conduct was lacking, it was absolutely a mirror of the respect that Connie Noakes had given to her class over the past two years. WAS SHE BEING INVESTIGATED?"
After attempting to discredit Savannah by intimating that she was a mental case, he stated that "Normally we would give her an automatic five-day suspension for abusing a teacher, but since its the end of the year, we will probably just expel her."
Is it right that administrators veer from the standard discipline procedure established by the Longview School District and modify it based on the time of year? Why won't school officials investigate the conduct of this teacher? As of this posting, neither Savannah or myself have been contacted by any investigation comity.
And what does it take to get a teacher fired?
I hope that Savannah's actions will force the administrators to become involved, and I hope parents attending the concert will become involved by asking themselves,"Why would a model student risk all the credibility she has EARNED by her academic effort and moral conduct risk reprimand and the marring of her character by speaking out in this way, unless she had no other way to be heard?"
I hope that bringing attention to this matter will be the catalyst for the change needed to make Monticello's music program a safe learning environment for all future students.

I agree with the parent completely, my child while attending Cedar Crest Jr High in Bethel School District was also in the presence of such behavior from choir teacher, we also reported the behavor and were told that she was the ONLY music arts teacher avaiable.
As parents, we are told by school polices that no "profanity " will be tolerated, no physical abuse, no bullying, yet here is a TEACHER who hold our children grades, graduation requirments in their hands, and she is allowed to get away with scaring and screaming at kids, and apparently not just at Savannaha.
While I am not approving the way of the delivery of the speech, I applaud Savannha for FINALLY getting someone attention that MAY do something about this!!!
My son just graduated this year, and he also tells us that MANY teachers use profanity in their class rooms. On a positive note, there are some wonderful teachers in our education system.

One more point... if Mrs. Noakes has children of her own, how does she treat them??????

I read with most interest the comments from Savannah Larson's mother. This takes me back to Army basic training days in the middle '60's. I do not know it to be true but I have been told that this type of language and activity is discouraged today. Anyway, my biggest concern is how this was handled. My wife, a school teacher, tells me many stories of false accusations by students regarding teacher actions, mainly to get heat off themselves. Recently she heard a student exclaim that they were going to get a teacher fired. School administrations have to be be very careful in believing everything that every student says is honest and accurate. I am not defending this teacher. If all that took place in the class room happened, were there other offended students also? If there were others, Mrs. Larson could have met privately with other concerned parents and obtained a group to take some positive action. Collectively they could have met with the vice principle, expressing their concerns in a joint meeting. In this day and age, one student/parent complaint can sometimes be overlooked, but several parents together with the same concern will get administration attention. I do not condone what Savannah Larson did in using this choir concert as a platform for her complaint. But sometime desperate people do desperate things. Think back, this nation has a rich history of people doing unacceptable activities in the name of accomplishing what is honorable and right. Lets cut this girl some slack, and give her some credit for having the integrity to stand out and try to change a wrong if in deed everything she and her mother said are fair and accurate.

I totally agree with Savannah's mom and I too had similarly negative experiences with teachers when I was in middle school. All of which had to do with the abuse of power. I remember one particular teacher that was just awful. She favored students, alluding to a fellow female classmate's appearance as looking promiscuous or "asking for it", and on a class trip actually pulled me aside and told me that I shouldn't be friends with a particular group of students because she felt they were a bad influence. Where in fact these students have sense went on to college. I also remember a really close friend of mine was really having trouble with the teachers conduct (mind you this person is a extremely good student, mature beyond her years and has since gone on to college at a prestigious university) her mom wrote our teacher a concerned letter about our teachers conduct in class and unfortunately our teacher was not pleased with the comments that were made and continued to take out her frustration on my friend for the rest of the year.

This is the problem that students have in these situations. Often you feel helpless and manipulated by the superior power of a teacher and feel that there is nothing you can do about their behavior and even if you do you (the student) are punished for speaking out, something that is emphasized and repeatedly taught in schools!
I am completely shocked by the 10 day suspension which seems extremely harsh considering I've been witness to more severe disorderly conduct on school grounds receiving a lesser punishment (like someone lighting another students hat on fire and receiving only a 2 day suspension). Its absolutely ridiculous and I totally sympathize with Savannah and her mom. I really hope that Mrs. Noakes looses her job for her inappropriate behavior. She is molding and influencing young minds! Just as abusive parenting is socially and morally unacceptable the affects of which have been seen to negatively influence a child's mind and well being, then students too should not have to be confronted day by day with the unpredictability of a combative teacher.

Hello, on the young girl who spoke out in bad language. Although I do not approve of this type of language from kids or adults, if this is the truth of what the music teacher normally says to her students, I feel that the girl spoke appropriately and that the teacher should be censured.... not the student. Truth is truth and should be brought out. Thank you.

Bravo to both Savannah Larson and her mother. Too bad more parents aren't as involved today, a story like this renews some faith in parents and their children actually having a positive relationship and being involved and caring for one another which our society seems so void of anymore. It takes quite a bit of courage to stand up for something you believe in especially in a situation where you feel the powers that control the situation are not addressing the problem at all, rather they are ignoring it. In doing so, the problem will fester and grow and now you have a 13 year old girl having to resort to being extremely blunt in a public manner to get any needed attention about the situation at all. What a very uncomfortable and avoidable burden to leave on anyone's shoulders let alone a student who went through the right channels in an attempt to rectify the situation before it worsened. Bear in mind that if the teacher in question were being painted in a negative light and all of the information relayed by Savannah and the other Choir students were blatant lies....don't you think she'd be speaking out in order to defend her fine character? Whether legal counsel is involved or not, if you're innocent, where is the harm in defending yourself against false statements? Any one of us would defend our character if someone were falsely accusing us, however, if we're guilty......you in good conscience cannot deny the claims because in the end, you're not only a hypocrite but you're also a liar; and a poor one at that.

It seems many Washington school fail to recognize that they have been trusted to care for, educate and guide the most important people in our lives. Although behavior like the Longview choir teacher's is not something I have had to deal with, I do witness casual, careless behavior of teachers and principal's in my children's school. They are more concerned about being right and getting the last word than providing a sensible remedy to any issue that arises.

Parents remember, as a taxpayer you have the right to observe your child's classroom at any time. You have the right to know how the school budget is handled. You have the right to be involved. And your child has the right to an education. Talk to other parents. Go to the school board. Talk to a lawyer. You're not alone and if more parents come forward it makes it much easier to take action. Get involved!!

I'm not in the least surprised at this situation. After having 2 children ruined by the Washington Public School system, nothing much would surprise me. We've all seen the news articles on teachers both sexually and physically abusing students, so why should reports of verbal, emotional and mental abuse be in any way surprising? The teachers and administration employees of the public school system have a 'God' complex. They routinely cover up wrongdoing by any employee and will use any tool they have to discredit any student or parent who brings a complaint. It is my opinion that it is the schools who bring on the tradegies like Colombine and Virgina Tech. I personally have had a daughter who was sexually harrassed by a music teacher. We filed a complaint with the principal. When nothing was done, we started to file a lawsuit, but discovered that none of the witnesses were willing to testify because they were threatened with failure to graduate and not getting into the college of their choice. These people are drunk with the power they have over us and our children and they protect their own--no matter how much of a danger they are to our children. I decided years ago that there is truly no 'teaching' going on in public schools--only brainwashing. I now have 2 adult children who exhibit PTSD symptoms at the idea of going back into a classroom. Is it in any way surprising that the drop out rate is so high? The smart students use Running Start to get away from the public schools. The ones that aren't so smart simply drop out when the abuse gets too bad for them to tolerate. The public school system in Washington State is a danger to the children they have in their grip. It is also broken, possibly beyond repair.

I AGREE WITH THE PARENT & STUDENT, IF THIS TEACHER'S BEHAVIOR HAS BEEN ON GOING, THEN THE SCHOOL SHOULD HAVE HAD THE GUMPTION TO INVESTIGATE, THE SCHOOL SURE AS HECK HAD ENOUGH TIME. SOUNDS LIKE THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS WERE THEMSELVES INTIMIDATED BY THIS TEACHER OR MAYBE THEY BEHAVE THAT WAY TOO? WE ARE IN THE AGE WHERE ANYTHING GOES AND ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN AND WHERE MOST PEOPLE FORGET OR DON'T PRACTICE THE "GOLDEN RULE", SO KUDO'S TO SAVANNAH!!!!

I AGREE WITH THE PARENT & STUDENT, IF THIS TEACHER'S BEHAVIOR HAS BEEN ON GOING, THEN THE SCHOOL SHOULD HAVE HAD THE GUMPTION TO INVESTIGATE, THE SCHOOL SURE AS HECK HAD ENOUGH TIME. SOUNDS LIKE THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS WERE THEMSELVES INTIMIDATED BY THIS TEACHER OR MAYBE THEY BEHAVE THAT WAY TOO? WE ARE IN THE AGE WHERE ANYTHING GOES AND ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN AND WHERE MOST PEOPLE FORGET OR DON'T PRACTICE THE "GOLDEN RULE", SO KUDO'S TO SAVANNAH!!!!

I would totally support my child if they chose to 'out' a teacher in this way after both parents and student trying to deal with it through normal channels and were blocked. i dont care how few music teachers there are, that kind of verbal abuse from a teacher is intollerable, completely unacceptable and the teacher should be removed from her position immediately (and should have been removed from teaching when it was first brought up, investigated and proven). of course it sounds like the teacher was never investigated, but that just shows how poor the school staff is i suppose.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! Doesn't ANYONE in this state have ANY decency left in them, or have we all become rapper punks with no regard for anyone else? Maybe the choir teacher needs to be reprimanded, and perhaps fired, but that's no excuse for Little Miss Potty Mouth. And people wonder why the teaching profession is losing capable educators - maybe it's all the ABUSE they get from students, parents and administrators. From the spouse of a experienced, highly competent, hugely burned out educator who is not appreciated nearly enough by her parents and admins...

i would support my child in any situation that they may get themselves into at school. one of this leve would require concquences at home but the school will deal out there own as well, and at that age espically they need someone to be on their side and support them. its not right that she did that but she did it and its over. so drop it. when i was in middle school we had a teacher who was swearing at us and we got her fired. so if this teacher was doing what was told then she deserves to get canned. that simple. i support the mom and girl in their actions.

If this young person thought it was OK to address an adult with profanity, the parents didn't do their job in raising this young woman to be respectful, not only toward adults and others in her peer group, but herself. How can an adult or anyone else, respect a child, which she is, that has a trash mouth. It goes back to the parents, children learn at home how to behave. I wonder what the rest of her life will be like!

NO I would not have supported her actions

To Gloria, Savannah did not address an adult with profanity, she was repeating, in a public forum, profanity that was addressed to students in class. I happen to know Savannah and her mother (distant cousins both), and while I have had occasion to disagree with her mother's child rearing decisions before, her mother has thoroughly taught all her children respect for both themselves and others. Sometimes it takes an act of faith to stand by your child when they do something impolitic, but I respect her mother's stand on this issue. Like her mother, Savannah can be obstinate and stubborn, but I truly believe that she felt her actions were in the best interests of herself and her peers, and I have every reason to believe her mother feels the same way. And while her mother presents nothing but support in public, I can assure you that Savannah's family will be using this situation to teach invaluable lessons about life, appropriateness, and boundaries. Speaking truth to power can be daunting, and if Savannah is anything like her mother, she will not choose the easy way of doing most things in life. It is my hope that this experience reveal Savannah truths about the world, and knowing many of the wonderful people in her life, I have every reason to believe she will come through this experience a wiser and more perceptive young woman.

2 wrongs don't make a right. The teacher is obviously in the wrong, but that doesn't make that girls behavior ok. I have a 13 year old son, he has an emotionally and verbally abusive father. Because someone curses at you, doesn't give you the right to curse back at them. Had the police ever been called? If the teacher is cursing and throwing things, that is assault. It isn't so much the schools fault, but the teacher's union. They protect the teachers up the ying yang. The union makes it nearly impossible to fire a teacher. Changes need to be made with the union so that a teacher behaves inappropriately that they should lose their job and not have the union throwing a temper tantrum doing everything to keep the teachers job.

But behavior like that at a concert is unacceptable. PERIOD!

2 wrongs don't make a right. DId the girl ever talk to the principal? THis was just an attention getter and she got it. SHe needs to have her foul little mouth washed out with Lava soap and be grounded for a week.
MOM get real.. your kid is a brat.

"Let me remind you, Savannah has NEVER been a discipline case in school." This is a quote from Savannah's mom. It is not a true statement.

First, why didn't Savannah use a tape recorder in class for a few days to capture this teacher's behavior? This all sounds like hear-say. Savannah claims that this behavior from Noakes occurred quite often. Cell phones, mp3 players, and mini-recorders are readily available and if I were this concerned parent, I'd send one with my child to gain some evidence to submit to the school board.

It's possible that there was a personality conflict between Noakes and Savannah and Savannah was perceiving the situation and even translating what was said with provanities added. There are a lot of tough kids out there that require hard-core teachers (w/o the profanities) to ensure that students learn and are not rudely interrupted by disruptive kids that take away from everyone elses education. Monticello Middle School has a very high population of low achievers (see WASL results) that come from low income homes (see Social Economic Status info at Washington's Dept. of Education homepage.)

Let's not feel sorry for this student. She was wrong. She was in front of 700 people, including young children. Her language was wrong and she could have gained evidence through a simple recording that would have made the point and saved her from expulsion. Or, maybe there was no evidence because this is all from a little girl that doesn't like Noakes and her hard-core teaching style (needed in a tough Middle School.)

"First, why didn't Savannah use a tape recorder in class for a few days to capture this teacher's behavior? This all sounds like hear-say. Savannah claims that this behavior from Noakes occurred quite often. Cell phones, mp3 players, and mini-recorders are readily available and if I were this concerned parent, I'd send one with my child to gain some evidence to submit to the school board."
Posted by: Tapeit at June 18, 2007 12:48 AM

I guess you are not aware that recording someone without their express permission, using any media, is illegal. What the girl did was shocking, but only what she was apparently taught by her teacher. She did not break any laws. Had she recorded her teacher, she could have been arrested and charged and her parents could have been sued.

I find it so interesting that so many people are focusing on the child's behavior and not the abuse the teacher has heaped on the heads of many children. I guess it shows how much power the schools have over the populace. I think the little girl was fed up and that was her last ditch effort to spare other children what she had been forced to endure. I, for one, applaud her courage even though I greatly dislike that a child so young felt forced into a public display like that.

This problem is so much bigger than a teacher using profanity and a student mimiking what the teacher says. Based upon what I have read on this subject, this is a classic case of "abuse of power" by the teacher, principal, and anyone else that wants to punish the student. It's about being punished for attempting to hold people accountable morally. The alarming part is that it is happening everywhere anymore. I have had experience with many governmental bodies that are simply using and abusing their positions of power to lie, steal, cheat, falsely arrest, falsely accuse and make judgement out of favor with existing written law, just because. Making up laws as they go. Discrediting people that threaten to expose this hypocrisy. We have lost a moral America with integrity. Earning respect anymore is defined by what official position that you hold and how much power you posess. It has nothing to do with what is right and just and moral. For this reason, we the people have no hope any longer for a just society.

Savannah and Mom, you were very brave and did the right thing !!! Good for you !

Tape recordings are not against the law as long as one person knows that it is being recorded. This is especially true in a classroom since it is a public location. Know your law. She should have recorded the teacher. Savannah did the wrong thing. She cursed in front of 700 people, including small children that were there to see their older brothers and sisters. Savanah needs to grow up and quit blaming her problems on teachers. She should have gone through the right chain of command. She only went as far as the principal. If that is not effective, there is a district office. Then the school board. Finally, Washington State has a Department of Education. Taking matters into your own hands is never right. Otherwise, even murder could be justified. Push the system, don't disregard it! The teacher may have been wrong, but we can't praise Savannah for her childish response. Otherwise, she is being set up for disaster.

Apparently the Savannah has been vindicated. After checking into it (finally) the school has sent the teacher a letter of reprimand and if they get other complaints she can be fired. Article here: http://www.komotv.com/news/local/8136657.html

As a future teacher, I have repeatedly been shocked at how easy the process for becoming a teacher is. All too often I see people graduate and am abhorred toward the idea of them being responsible of children.

In this situation, I tend to believe Savannah's story, but I still think that teachers do deserve a chance to defend themselves. It is hard enough for a teacher to state a political belief without being rebuked--yet profanity went unnoticed?? Unlikely, but very possible, unfortunately.

I agree that Savannah's problem needed to be addressed. I also believe that, unfortunately, based upon the school administration, not much would have been done, if anything at all. Confrontation of any problem is not well-liked anymore. However, while I think that her way of addressing the problem certainly got the attention that it deserved, the end does not necessarily justify the means. They should have gone through the chain of administration--aka the appropriate people at the appropriate times. Would it have been an aggravating chore? Abosolutely! Worth it? Yes, and I say this because you have the responsibility to try peaceful negotiation first, then if, and most likely when, inadequate attention was given to the situation, then consider your options--i.e. transfer of schools or the action Savannah chose, etc. Of course, the other parents also have the absolute right to know what their children are going through each day, but I still think less drastic means should have been tried first.

In the end, one should consider the guidelines of honor and integrity set up for our country in its constitution. Innocent until proven guilty, the right to a fair trial, and then punishment as harsh as the crime committed--not harsher, but certainly not reduced.

What is wrong with you people. Since when does 2 wrongs make a right? Stooping to become what you don't agree with makes you no better than them.