Some Seattle churches have decided to harbor undocumented immigrants. Do you think this is right? Why? Why not?
25 Comments
Robert Williams said:
I believe if a church is going to break the law then that church should no longer have tax free status. The problem is children born in the US are classified as citizens. I believe if the Mother is illigal the child is illigal. This would solve the problem of breaking up families.
Robert Williams said:
I believe if a church is going to break the law then that church should no longer have tax free status. The problem is children born in the US are classified as citizens. I believe if the Mother is illigal the child is illigal. This would solve the problem of breaking up families.
es said:
are any of these the same churches that were harboring pedofile preists?
Ed Bodnar said:
I agree with removal of the tax-exempt status. If you break the laws of the United States, you don't get the benefits of any other laws. It isn't a set of choices; support the laws, all of them.
Philip in West Seattle said:
On a basic human rights level of shelter, food, etc, this is a good idea. However, I seriously hope that the legal assistance includes "how to comply with immigration law."
Sandy said:
In the 1980's we gave amnesty to approximately 8 million people that were in this country illegally. If you read about the affects of this on the Center for Immigration Control website, you will see the actual cost of this to the American public in social services, medical costs and costs to our education systems. I think that churches are breaking the laws of this country in harbouring them and should be treated like an employer that hires illegals. Illegal is illegal and there are hundreds of thousands of people waiting to get into this country legally that deserve their chance. Maybe some of the people on welfare that are able to work should take the jobs that employers say they can't fill.
fred said:
Get political, lose your tax exemption status! Churches that blur the line between separation of church and state should lose their exemption. Churches need to stick with religion or get taxed!
Tom said:
I think that church needs to be made an example of,and be closed down and the pastor arrested! This lawlessness needs to stop or we will loose ouer country
Caty Lady said:
Separating familes is not the issues here - they will take their children with them and apply legally to get back into this country. The real issue is that Latino immigrants and illegals cost this country million of dollars a year in social and health services. If you don't believe that watch them at the grocery stores using food stamps and at clinic using DSHS authorizations - or better yet go to any hospital emergency and see all the non-emergencies that don't speak English, for which we as consumers and taxpayers are required to provide interpreters. They take dollars away from our education system because they don't speak our language and we make special provision for them to try and get them educated. They are not just agriculatural workers anymore - they have moved into the trades and are working undocumented for lower wages which will eventually lower our standard of living. As a tax payer I think if churches want to disregard the laws of this country they should have their tax exempt status removed and face prosecution. I equate it to someone moving into my house, using my resources that I worked hard for and rationalizing it by saying they can't make it on their own. Wake up people! A "Path to Citizenship" is another way of saying amnesty. Do we give shoplifters, speeders or drunks amnesty in this country? Breaking our laws is breaking our laws. If someone want to immigrate to this country do it legally - there are millions of people on the list to come to this country legally. What a Path to Citizenship means is cheap labor for industry, a lower standards of living for Americans, and higher taxes to support better and more social programs. Maybe churches should be required to pay for these people and not the American people.
Minnie Brasher said:
If a church breakes our laws, it loses tax status. Do you hear us politicians?
maybelater said:
Everyone in this country aught to be paying attention to this issues. The politians are courting the latino vote so they are getting the most attention. WRITE YOUR REPRESENTIVES! It only takes a few minutes. The squeeky wheel gets the grease and the ordinary citizens in this country don't take enough responsilibity for voicing their opinions. We are just too busy working to support ourselves and pay for social and healthcare programs for others. It's time to stop this nonsense. Low paying jobs are low paying because there is a lot of undocumented workers to fill them, but they are moving into the trades. Illegals send billions of dollars a year out of this country to their home countries to support family members and other that want to come here. There are whole villages in Mexico that don't exist anymore because they are all here. This is not just immigration - it's our heritage and our way of life. WRITE YOUR REPRESENTATIVES. It's easy - just log into http://www.congress.org and tell your elected officials what you think. If enough of us start doing that maybe they will have to listen. I for one, am tired or paying for people that think I owe them a living or a better life when they don't want to make the changes int heir own lives.
Jon said:
I agree those churches that violate the seperation of church and state by breaking laws should have their tax exempt status revoked.
If they break the law especially federal law they should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law too.
Karlene said:
This is wrong! Church and state should be separate. Illegal aliens should be required to return to their country of origin, and then only allowed to enter this country legally. Churches should not be involved.
Dave Mazza said:
While the law attempts to ensure justice it also reflects our society - for good or ill. At one time it was "legal" to own and sell human beings (even the U.S. Supreme Court supported this as "legal"), or to bar people from restaurants or theaters because of the color of their skin. Those unjust laws were changed because individuals and institutions such as churches refused to be part of an unjust law. Many of the liberties the people posting on this site enjoy do so because people have refused to blindly obey laws that did not produce justice. I applaud the churches, the city councils, the public servants and the private citizens who say "enough!" to these absurd policies that destroy hard-working families, disrupt communities, and trample on the sense of justice upon which this country was based. With the exception of the Native American nations, we all came from somewhere else. We should be welcoming the newest arrivals rather than criminalizing them.
One more thing, let's not forget that being in this country without documentation is a civil offense not a criminal one. Does it make sense to spend millions on something like that - particularly when these new arrivals - contrary to the missinformation spread by anti-immigrant groups - actually use fewer public services than the average citizens, pay as many or oftentimes more taxes and infuse millions of dollars into local economies?
Jill said:
The Bible says Christians are to obey the laws of the land (if they don't contradict God's word), so they should not be enabling illegal aliens to break our laws. Going to Mexico and helping them improve their lives in their own county is great. Also, the fact that they don't want to speak English and prefer their flag over ours shows they are here mainly to use us not join us. I have friends who immigrated legally and this upsets them as much as well.
Mistyfawn said:
Many of these so called "undocumented immigrants"
(illegal aliens) are not actually undocumented.
The vast majority of them (millions) do have documents unfortunately they are fraudulent documents(Felony) using the Social Security numbers and other information stolen from American citizens (I.D. theft).Some of them even use the credit of Americans too(Fraud,I.D. theft).
Feeling sorry for these aliens is like feeling sorry for Al Capone.There are 25,000 American citizens murdered or killed every year by illegal aliens vastly more than the number of American soldiers killed in Iraq every year.The majority of the Meth,Cocaine,Heroin,Marijuana etc. is smuggled through the border with Mexico.However I am not discriminating against the illegal aliens from Mexico because I feel all illegal aliens should be deported whereever they come from whether it be from Mexico,Honduras,Ireland,The U.K.,Russia or China.Aiding and abetting illegal aliens is a felony too.So raid,arrest and lock up the church leaders breaking the law and remove the churches tax-exempt status.
The only people I care about are my fellow non criminal American citizens and I hate to see them defrauded or hurt in any way.
Relevant said:
"The only people I care about are my fellow non criminal American citizens and I hate to see them defrauded or hurt in any way."
For anyone wondering where the hatred of Americans across the globe comes from, Ladies and Gentleman, we give you "Mistyfawn"
Quinn said:
I'm surprised the churches didn't just turn them all over to the authorities! Usually Republicans... God fearing individuals go out of their way to make others miserable. I applaud the churches for giving REGULAR PEOPLE shelter.
Wayne said:
This explains why the Romans reasonably crucified or fed Christians to wild beasts 2000 years ago.The Christians were law breakers and disrespected Roman law and authority.
Remember the slogan when in Rome do as the Romans do.In other words if visiting a foreign country respect their rules,laws,customs and sovereignty.If you don't like a certain foreign countries laws then don't there in the first place.If you don't like Americans then get out of their country.Illegal aliens have no right to live unlawfully in this country and their excuse is not reasonable or valid.
Vernonia1 said:
Caling illegal immigrants "undocumented workers" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
I love Hispanic folks...but why is it okay for SOME folks to break the law & not for everyone?
why do I go to jail if I brak the law but they do not? I work hard too....so can't I go free if I do something Illegal? NOT!
Barbara said:
As a Christian I most definitely do not agree with harboring illegals by a church. Just because
a group of people call themselves Christians does not make them so. It is against the law, and rightly so to harbor illegals. If they want to come into this country they need to come here according to the laws. I do not pay taxes to support them. It is their responsibilty to follow the laws of the land just as we do. Letting illegals in is harming America.
RICHARD said:
SO IF I BREAK THE LAW ALL I HAVE TO DO IS GO TO CHURCH AND BE SAFE AND SECURE?. I HARDLY THINK SO.
AS SOON AS THE CHURCH PROVIDES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS SANCTUARY FROM THE LAW THEY ARE NO LONGER A VIABLE CHURCH AND SHOULD NOT BE TAX EXEMPT. THIS IS REALLY NOT VERY COMPLICATED.
Mike said:
I wish thousands of people would "steal" my social security number, go to work and have their deductions added to my funds!!
Churches do as their "members" wish for the most part. If the bleeding heart conservatives and liberals want it done, it probably will be done.
Sandy said:
No persons or institutions should break the law. I think that those citizens in need of assistance should be helped before resources are given to illegal immigrants. There is a difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants.
Bev said:
They are breaking the law and should be disciplined just as anyone else would be.
I believe if a church is going to break the law then that church should no longer have tax free status. The problem is children born in the US are classified as citizens. I believe if the Mother is illigal the child is illigal. This would solve the problem of breaking up families.
I believe if a church is going to break the law then that church should no longer have tax free status. The problem is children born in the US are classified as citizens. I believe if the Mother is illigal the child is illigal. This would solve the problem of breaking up families.
are any of these the same churches that were harboring pedofile preists?
I agree with removal of the tax-exempt status. If you break the laws of the United States, you don't get the benefits of any other laws. It isn't a set of choices; support the laws, all of them.
On a basic human rights level of shelter, food, etc, this is a good idea. However, I seriously hope that the legal assistance includes "how to comply with immigration law."
In the 1980's we gave amnesty to approximately 8 million people that were in this country illegally. If you read about the affects of this on the Center for Immigration Control website, you will see the actual cost of this to the American public in social services, medical costs and costs to our education systems. I think that churches are breaking the laws of this country in harbouring them and should be treated like an employer that hires illegals. Illegal is illegal and there are hundreds of thousands of people waiting to get into this country legally that deserve their chance. Maybe some of the people on welfare that are able to work should take the jobs that employers say they can't fill.
Get political, lose your tax exemption status! Churches that blur the line between separation of church and state should lose their exemption. Churches need to stick with religion or get taxed!
I think that church needs to be made an example of,and be closed down and the pastor arrested! This lawlessness needs to stop or we will loose ouer country
Separating familes is not the issues here - they will take their children with them and apply legally to get back into this country. The real issue is that Latino immigrants and illegals cost this country million of dollars a year in social and health services. If you don't believe that watch them at the grocery stores using food stamps and at clinic using DSHS authorizations - or better yet go to any hospital emergency and see all the non-emergencies that don't speak English, for which we as consumers and taxpayers are required to provide interpreters. They take dollars away from our education system because they don't speak our language and we make special provision for them to try and get them educated. They are not just agriculatural workers anymore - they have moved into the trades and are working undocumented for lower wages which will eventually lower our standard of living. As a tax payer I think if churches want to disregard the laws of this country they should have their tax exempt status removed and face prosecution. I equate it to someone moving into my house, using my resources that I worked hard for and rationalizing it by saying they can't make it on their own. Wake up people! A "Path to Citizenship" is another way of saying amnesty. Do we give shoplifters, speeders or drunks amnesty in this country? Breaking our laws is breaking our laws. If someone want to immigrate to this country do it legally - there are millions of people on the list to come to this country legally. What a Path to Citizenship means is cheap labor for industry, a lower standards of living for Americans, and higher taxes to support better and more social programs. Maybe churches should be required to pay for these people and not the American people.
If a church breakes our laws, it loses tax status. Do you hear us politicians?
Everyone in this country aught to be paying attention to this issues. The politians are courting the latino vote so they are getting the most attention. WRITE YOUR REPRESENTIVES! It only takes a few minutes. The squeeky wheel gets the grease and the ordinary citizens in this country don't take enough responsilibity for voicing their opinions. We are just too busy working to support ourselves and pay for social and healthcare programs for others. It's time to stop this nonsense. Low paying jobs are low paying because there is a lot of undocumented workers to fill them, but they are moving into the trades. Illegals send billions of dollars a year out of this country to their home countries to support family members and other that want to come here. There are whole villages in Mexico that don't exist anymore because they are all here. This is not just immigration - it's our heritage and our way of life. WRITE YOUR REPRESENTATIVES. It's easy - just log into http://www.congress.org and tell your elected officials what you think. If enough of us start doing that maybe they will have to listen. I for one, am tired or paying for people that think I owe them a living or a better life when they don't want to make the changes int heir own lives.
I agree those churches that violate the seperation of church and state by breaking laws should have their tax exempt status revoked.
If they break the law especially federal law they should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law too.
This is wrong! Church and state should be separate. Illegal aliens should be required to return to their country of origin, and then only allowed to enter this country legally. Churches should not be involved.
While the law attempts to ensure justice it also reflects our society - for good or ill. At one time it was "legal" to own and sell human beings (even the U.S. Supreme Court supported this as "legal"), or to bar people from restaurants or theaters because of the color of their skin. Those unjust laws were changed because individuals and institutions such as churches refused to be part of an unjust law. Many of the liberties the people posting on this site enjoy do so because people have refused to blindly obey laws that did not produce justice. I applaud the churches, the city councils, the public servants and the private citizens who say "enough!" to these absurd policies that destroy hard-working families, disrupt communities, and trample on the sense of justice upon which this country was based. With the exception of the Native American nations, we all came from somewhere else. We should be welcoming the newest arrivals rather than criminalizing them.
One more thing, let's not forget that being in this country without documentation is a civil offense not a criminal one. Does it make sense to spend millions on something like that - particularly when these new arrivals - contrary to the missinformation spread by anti-immigrant groups - actually use fewer public services than the average citizens, pay as many or oftentimes more taxes and infuse millions of dollars into local economies?
The Bible says Christians are to obey the laws of the land (if they don't contradict God's word), so they should not be enabling illegal aliens to break our laws. Going to Mexico and helping them improve their lives in their own county is great. Also, the fact that they don't want to speak English and prefer their flag over ours shows they are here mainly to use us not join us. I have friends who immigrated legally and this upsets them as much as well.
Many of these so called "undocumented immigrants"
(illegal aliens) are not actually undocumented.
The vast majority of them (millions) do have documents unfortunately they are fraudulent documents(Felony) using the Social Security numbers and other information stolen from American citizens (I.D. theft).Some of them even use the credit of Americans too(Fraud,I.D. theft).
Feeling sorry for these aliens is like feeling sorry for Al Capone.There are 25,000 American citizens murdered or killed every year by illegal aliens vastly more than the number of American soldiers killed in Iraq every year.The majority of the Meth,Cocaine,Heroin,Marijuana etc. is smuggled through the border with Mexico.However I am not discriminating against the illegal aliens from Mexico because I feel all illegal aliens should be deported whereever they come from whether it be from Mexico,Honduras,Ireland,The U.K.,Russia or China.Aiding and abetting illegal aliens is a felony too.So raid,arrest and lock up the church leaders breaking the law and remove the churches tax-exempt status.
The only people I care about are my fellow non criminal American citizens and I hate to see them defrauded or hurt in any way.
"The only people I care about are my fellow non criminal American citizens and I hate to see them defrauded or hurt in any way."
For anyone wondering where the hatred of Americans across the globe comes from, Ladies and Gentleman, we give you "Mistyfawn"
I'm surprised the churches didn't just turn them all over to the authorities! Usually Republicans... God fearing individuals go out of their way to make others miserable. I applaud the churches for giving REGULAR PEOPLE shelter.
This explains why the Romans reasonably crucified or fed Christians to wild beasts 2000 years ago.The Christians were law breakers and disrespected Roman law and authority.
Remember the slogan when in Rome do as the Romans do.In other words if visiting a foreign country respect their rules,laws,customs and sovereignty.If you don't like a certain foreign countries laws then don't there in the first place.If you don't like Americans then get out of their country.Illegal aliens have no right to live unlawfully in this country and their excuse is not reasonable or valid.
Caling illegal immigrants "undocumented workers" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
I love Hispanic folks...but why is it okay for SOME folks to break the law & not for everyone?
why do I go to jail if I brak the law but they do not? I work hard too....so can't I go free if I do something Illegal? NOT!
As a Christian I most definitely do not agree with harboring illegals by a church. Just because
a group of people call themselves Christians does not make them so. It is against the law, and rightly so to harbor illegals. If they want to come into this country they need to come here according to the laws. I do not pay taxes to support them. It is their responsibilty to follow the laws of the land just as we do. Letting illegals in is harming America.
SO IF I BREAK THE LAW ALL I HAVE TO DO IS GO TO CHURCH AND BE SAFE AND SECURE?. I HARDLY THINK SO.
AS SOON AS THE CHURCH PROVIDES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS SANCTUARY FROM THE LAW THEY ARE NO LONGER A VIABLE CHURCH AND SHOULD NOT BE TAX EXEMPT. THIS IS REALLY NOT VERY COMPLICATED.
I wish thousands of people would "steal" my social security number, go to work and have their deductions added to my funds!!
Churches do as their "members" wish for the most part. If the bleeding heart conservatives and liberals want it done, it probably will be done.
No persons or institutions should break the law. I think that those citizens in need of assistance should be helped before resources are given to illegal immigrants. There is a difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants.
They are breaking the law and should be disciplined just as anyone else would be.