When we stop holding the criminals hand and get tuff,then you will see crime drop.bring back the chain gangs and quit trying to be political correct.
wayne said:
number one coming out of jail is`nt a easy task,people need help coming out again. if not you go back to your same roots. if this world wants a better place help these people get a job an education , stop these offices from stop hiring because of background checks that have happened 10 years back.if a person has been out for 5 years or more with no crime welcome him give them a chance. we all need a little help even the ones in uniform! god help us all. my heart goes out to both families on their loses. thank you!
jeff said:
Parole offers a second chance at freedom to convicted criminals. If they violate the terms of their parole they should immediately be sent back to prison to serve out their remaining sentence and to face any new charges stemming from their violations. If this isn't done, you can expect more tragedies in the future.
Lisa Leonard-Doll said:
Dear Gov. Chris Greguoir,
I am so impressed with your courage in addressing such issues. In 2004 I attended a Forum at Eatonville High School where a number of politions were present. I learned that Pierce County Police Department recieved grants for 3 billion dollars for Meth. and Meth labs and for that year the State of WA was awarded only 3 million for the entire state for drug/alcohol treatment.
I have worked as a Chemical Dependency Interventionn Specialist for 22 years. I make $1700 per mo. and I work for Tacoma School District as a Prevention/Intervention Specialist. I am cuurently working with a student who has been raised around generational gangster activity and has sufferred the loss of 7 family members in the last year, beginning with the hit and run child on Christmas Day last year and both his parents are awaiting treatment. This student has not used any drugs or alcohol yet and I believe he is at great risk after witnessing this hit and run and his brother being shot last year in front of a Tacoma Eastside school. He requested for me to please talk to his teachers and school counselor to let them know that becase of this he is having difficulty learning what he needs to to pass the WASL.
This is relevant to the question at hand because if we do not attempt to intervene on these issues we are going to have increasing problems that punitive actions cannot attempt to improve or correct. Most criminals have some kind of alcohol/drug and/or familily of origin issues. This was observed as Ms. Porter (Raymond's) mom tried to express that her son was impaired, not a monster.
My suggestion is that with a little salary and wealth of years of experience it seems that we can afford an Interventionist and maybe even an MHP to help pre-screen incarserated criminals to identify if they may have Substance Abuse/Chemical Dependency issues and/or co-occurring with mental illness such as a Psychhopathy or Acute Psychosis. Then appropriate referral for rehabilitation.
I realize that not all people who need help are ameanable to help, however prison sentences can be adjusted accordingly. Even with full knowledge that people with these issues are often times masters of manipulation and deception, can we afford to not to risk a few salaries to at least identify the need?
Thanks for your time in reading this,
Lisa
Vickie said:
Let me just start by saying that I'm sorry for the loss of life on both sides of the line. Now I can say peice to the mom who says that her son has had a hard life,and the fact that her son has been in trouble since age 14.Excuse me mom,but I feel that if at 14 if my child had gotten in troble with the law I would have done something starting then to try to change the problem.
Let me tell you why I feel this way, it is my understanding that as a parent I was responsible for my child's actions until they were 18 yrs of age.I was a low income single parent for part of my childs life and still my child grew up knowing what was right and wrong.Oh sure you are going to say that I didn't have my own problems.Let me tell you that at 3 yrs old I left my childs father because he was abusive to me.I moved to another city and ,he followed me,I knew that I needed help to keep him away from me so I went to a womens shelter,and spent 6 yrs in couseling,I'm not saying I still did'thave problems,but we as a family(my child and I) worked through them.My child stole something from a thrift store one day when she as 3,and later that day showed it to me.Instead of forgetting about it and telling her never to do it again, I took her back,and made her give it back. Made her apolize to them and,told her that next time I myself would take her to the police.
Maybe that was kinda extreme,but I was not going to let just slide and laugh it off.
My daughter had to grow up in a household were mom did do things wrong, like do illeagl drugs. You know I never did them in front of her,but I never lied to her either about not doing them.I did tell her please don't follow in my footsteps. well when she got she did try pot but that was all.
My daughter graduated with honors from high school,went on to join the army, and has just finished a two year college course,with honors.
Sure she could have been just like that young man who just lost his life but I chose to pay attation to raising her and tried my best to make her a responsible human out of her.She had friends thatdid the wrong things and she quit being around them.
One friend that I remember well was at my home with my daughter one day and I asked her what kind of grades she had gotten on her report card. She told me oh I got a couple of C's the rest D's.I was suprise and asked is your mom mad? Oh no was her reply she don't care.I was in shock.
Your child is our future,your legacy.
When a woman gets pregnaut she has many options,keep it and raise it,give it up to family,give it to someone else, or not have it at all.My daughter is 23yrs old so I did have these options,and I took to have her,and with that comes the responsiblity to raise her.
I may not have been the best or riches or most saniest mom but I did my best.The last 6 years were the hardest for me because I was fighting social security disibilty system for some help so my child had lost part of her financal securty.She does have a step father and he feels the same,it it our responsiblity to raise our kids into responsible adults not thugs who have no cares about the laws of this country.It is not a perfect world but it is a country that lets you speak your feelings.
Dan Ball said:
Clearly, something is broken here. The guy violated Parole three times, twice by not checking in, once by being stoned. Where things may be needing a tightening, is in the process whereby Parole is offered in the first place. It should be EARNED, not handed out, not given to someone free-to-make-space, it shouldn't be up to the prosecution to demonstrate why it should NOT be given, at this point, the Felon is a felon, the decision is whether or not they are "Rehabilitated" and constitute a threat. It should be up to the Felon's lawyers and experts to demonstrate that he is NOT a Threat, not the State to show he still is.
Of course, that is presupposing that the State actually has any intent whatsoever to make a convict serve their time, rather than getting them through and out into society as quickly as possible to make room for someone else.
erv said:
i think the death penalty isnt used enough. it doesnt matter to me weather they get the needle or a rope. make it public or better yet broadcast it through out the prisons. not only a must see but a requirement for all prisoners to witness.
the death penalty needs to be extended to drug dealers and manufacturers. burying these maggots makes alot better sense than releasing them so they can carry on as usual. when they are in jail they should have no visitors no TV nothing but a toilet a blanket and a concrete floor to sleep on. the sad part about this is our prisons have better living conditions than most people living in 3rd world countries.
string em up shoot em stick a needle in em just dispose of them like the garbage that they are.
ele said:
Yes, parole violators get off too easily. I live in a 3 unit complex on a dead end road. One of the renters was in and out of jail frequently for breaking parole and I didn't find out till after he was evicted that he was a child molester and I had my grandkids visiting about once a month.
Steve said:
This is an extremely difficult situation to deal with. Honestly the balance is public spending vs public risk vs personal liberties vs rehabilitation. Anytime you try to make this compromise...you are prone to failure. In fact you are prone to fail often.
It is not about lack of evaluation, addiction, borderline functioning, nature, nurture, or any other plethora of reasons...it is about CHOICE. The damndest thing about us humans is that we all have a free will. This is something that can't be rehabilitated or cured. For every poor childhood, victim of abuse story, bad environment, or poor person story you have...you can find one that was equal or worse that chose to not engange in the behavior and poor choices that lead to anti-social or criminal behavior.
The question is whether at some point we reach a threshold that now indicates that you are a consistent menace to society by your very existance in it. I am personally not always a 3 strike fan, most people have some redeeming qualities if they chose to exercise those redeeming qualities...but I can assure you that it doesn't take 20/40/60 strikes before you are a menace to society by always refusing to partake of your good side and continuously making poor choices.
Lets focus on some creative thinking here:
1) We need to shore up prevention/treatment. Give those individuals who wish to either stay away or get away have the opportunity.
2) Effective supervision/probation on minor precursory offenses that do not result in lengthy jail and/or prison sentances.
3) Swift and severe sentances for those that are convicted of felony offenses.
4) Effective evaluation of those being released/paroled. Consider some system of halfway civil committment for extended periods for those severely troubled or the consistent menace to society type offenders. They can work, pay rent, and stay in group type facilities with curfews, etc with on site supervision. Violate and you go back...that simple. Do good for X months/years...then be released from this type of supervision level.
This is a situation that can't ever be solved, but we can get alot closer than we are.
Matt said:
Parole violations are just a tool for the state. The state keeps the revolving door running by tying itself to the criminals. The state retains the “option” of which parole violator gets to go back to prison. When you think of it this way, there is a lot of power there that rest in the hands of few people. Parole is a funny thing. The state has a lot of leeway on sentences and parole issues. A person can get a lot of time for a relatively lesser crime. The “trend” of the courts is followed, but they are not finite rules. An example is that Martha Stewart could have gotten a lengthy sentence, but she did not because of a trend to administer a lesser punishment. I believe that she got a light sentence so that the people wouldn’t take a hard look at how much leeway the courts have with sentencing. My point is that parole violations are insignificant. There are over 14,000 murders per year in this country. The system is so clogged with drug related crime it isn’t funny. There are almost 2 million drug arrests per year in the United States. Serious criminals are buried in an overall prison population of drug related offenders. The war on drugs is not a war. America can’t wage war on drugs and be addicted to them at the same time. The only fear I have about drugs is possible involvement of my children. I’m confident in my parenting skills that my kids won’t become addicted to drugs. As long as the drug laws continue to be enforced, the price of them will remain high, the users will need to get the money to buy them, and they’ll come knock you on the head to get the ten bucks in your pocket. Don’t enforce them, the price will drop and the drug addicts will have their drugs and you will not be looking for your lawn mower down at the pawn shop. There is no way that you can have a serious talk about parole violations when the system that administers the parole is so congested with criminals that no one cares about. As a whole, America can’t possibly care about drug offenders because Americans provide the market for drugs. The absolute last people who want to stop enforcing the drug laws are the people who make money on them. Getting drugs should be as easy and as costly as getting a cup of coffee. The true punishments of doing drugs are the drugs themselves. Once people get that through their head, then we can stop wasting time with dopers and concentrate on punishing murders, rapes, extortion, fraud, thefts, assaults, forgeries, robberies, burglaries, embezzlements, and fishing without a license.
Bill Holmberg said:
There wouldn't be as many parole violations, if the government would reinstate the draft. Get these gang members in uniform and send them to Irac. They will either kill the enemy or each other. This will empty a lot of our jails and prisons, saving the tax payers a lot of money.
When we stop holding the criminals hand and get tuff,then you will see crime drop.bring back the chain gangs and quit trying to be political correct.
number one coming out of jail is`nt a easy task,people need help coming out again. if not you go back to your same roots. if this world wants a better place help these people get a job an education , stop these offices from stop hiring because of background checks that have happened 10 years back.if a person has been out for 5 years or more with no crime welcome him give them a chance. we all need a little help even the ones in uniform! god help us all. my heart goes out to both families on their loses. thank you!
Parole offers a second chance at freedom to convicted criminals. If they violate the terms of their parole they should immediately be sent back to prison to serve out their remaining sentence and to face any new charges stemming from their violations. If this isn't done, you can expect more tragedies in the future.
Dear Gov. Chris Greguoir,
I am so impressed with your courage in addressing such issues. In 2004 I attended a Forum at Eatonville High School where a number of politions were present. I learned that Pierce County Police Department recieved grants for 3 billion dollars for Meth. and Meth labs and for that year the State of WA was awarded only 3 million for the entire state for drug/alcohol treatment.
I have worked as a Chemical Dependency Interventionn Specialist for 22 years. I make $1700 per mo. and I work for Tacoma School District as a Prevention/Intervention Specialist. I am cuurently working with a student who has been raised around generational gangster activity and has sufferred the loss of 7 family members in the last year, beginning with the hit and run child on Christmas Day last year and both his parents are awaiting treatment. This student has not used any drugs or alcohol yet and I believe he is at great risk after witnessing this hit and run and his brother being shot last year in front of a Tacoma Eastside school. He requested for me to please talk to his teachers and school counselor to let them know that becase of this he is having difficulty learning what he needs to to pass the WASL.
This is relevant to the question at hand because if we do not attempt to intervene on these issues we are going to have increasing problems that punitive actions cannot attempt to improve or correct. Most criminals have some kind of alcohol/drug and/or familily of origin issues. This was observed as Ms. Porter (Raymond's) mom tried to express that her son was impaired, not a monster.
My suggestion is that with a little salary and wealth of years of experience it seems that we can afford an Interventionist and maybe even an MHP to help pre-screen incarserated criminals to identify if they may have Substance Abuse/Chemical Dependency issues and/or co-occurring with mental illness such as a Psychhopathy or Acute Psychosis. Then appropriate referral for rehabilitation.
I realize that not all people who need help are ameanable to help, however prison sentences can be adjusted accordingly. Even with full knowledge that people with these issues are often times masters of manipulation and deception, can we afford to not to risk a few salaries to at least identify the need?
Thanks for your time in reading this,
Lisa
Let me just start by saying that I'm sorry for the loss of life on both sides of the line. Now I can say peice to the mom who says that her son has had a hard life,and the fact that her son has been in trouble since age 14.Excuse me mom,but I feel that if at 14 if my child had gotten in troble with the law I would have done something starting then to try to change the problem.
Let me tell you why I feel this way, it is my understanding that as a parent I was responsible for my child's actions until they were 18 yrs of age.I was a low income single parent for part of my childs life and still my child grew up knowing what was right and wrong.Oh sure you are going to say that I didn't have my own problems.Let me tell you that at 3 yrs old I left my childs father because he was abusive to me.I moved to another city and ,he followed me,I knew that I needed help to keep him away from me so I went to a womens shelter,and spent 6 yrs in couseling,I'm not saying I still did'thave problems,but we as a family(my child and I) worked through them.My child stole something from a thrift store one day when she as 3,and later that day showed it to me.Instead of forgetting about it and telling her never to do it again, I took her back,and made her give it back. Made her apolize to them and,told her that next time I myself would take her to the police.
Maybe that was kinda extreme,but I was not going to let just slide and laugh it off.
My daughter had to grow up in a household were mom did do things wrong, like do illeagl drugs. You know I never did them in front of her,but I never lied to her either about not doing them.I did tell her please don't follow in my footsteps. well when she got she did try pot but that was all.
My daughter graduated with honors from high school,went on to join the army, and has just finished a two year college course,with honors.
Sure she could have been just like that young man who just lost his life but I chose to pay attation to raising her and tried my best to make her a responsible human out of her.She had friends thatdid the wrong things and she quit being around them.
One friend that I remember well was at my home with my daughter one day and I asked her what kind of grades she had gotten on her report card. She told me oh I got a couple of C's the rest D's.I was suprise and asked is your mom mad? Oh no was her reply she don't care.I was in shock.
Your child is our future,your legacy.
When a woman gets pregnaut she has many options,keep it and raise it,give it up to family,give it to someone else, or not have it at all.My daughter is 23yrs old so I did have these options,and I took to have her,and with that comes the responsiblity to raise her.
I may not have been the best or riches or most saniest mom but I did my best.The last 6 years were the hardest for me because I was fighting social security disibilty system for some help so my child had lost part of her financal securty.She does have a step father and he feels the same,it it our responsiblity to raise our kids into responsible adults not thugs who have no cares about the laws of this country.It is not a perfect world but it is a country that lets you speak your feelings.
Clearly, something is broken here. The guy violated Parole three times, twice by not checking in, once by being stoned. Where things may be needing a tightening, is in the process whereby Parole is offered in the first place. It should be EARNED, not handed out, not given to someone free-to-make-space, it shouldn't be up to the prosecution to demonstrate why it should NOT be given, at this point, the Felon is a felon, the decision is whether or not they are "Rehabilitated" and constitute a threat. It should be up to the Felon's lawyers and experts to demonstrate that he is NOT a Threat, not the State to show he still is.
Of course, that is presupposing that the State actually has any intent whatsoever to make a convict serve their time, rather than getting them through and out into society as quickly as possible to make room for someone else.
i think the death penalty isnt used enough. it doesnt matter to me weather they get the needle or a rope. make it public or better yet broadcast it through out the prisons. not only a must see but a requirement for all prisoners to witness.
the death penalty needs to be extended to drug dealers and manufacturers. burying these maggots makes alot better sense than releasing them so they can carry on as usual. when they are in jail they should have no visitors no TV nothing but a toilet a blanket and a concrete floor to sleep on. the sad part about this is our prisons have better living conditions than most people living in 3rd world countries.
string em up shoot em stick a needle in em just dispose of them like the garbage that they are.
Yes, parole violators get off too easily. I live in a 3 unit complex on a dead end road. One of the renters was in and out of jail frequently for breaking parole and I didn't find out till after he was evicted that he was a child molester and I had my grandkids visiting about once a month.
This is an extremely difficult situation to deal with. Honestly the balance is public spending vs public risk vs personal liberties vs rehabilitation. Anytime you try to make this compromise...you are prone to failure. In fact you are prone to fail often.
It is not about lack of evaluation, addiction, borderline functioning, nature, nurture, or any other plethora of reasons...it is about CHOICE. The damndest thing about us humans is that we all have a free will. This is something that can't be rehabilitated or cured. For every poor childhood, victim of abuse story, bad environment, or poor person story you have...you can find one that was equal or worse that chose to not engange in the behavior and poor choices that lead to anti-social or criminal behavior.
The question is whether at some point we reach a threshold that now indicates that you are a consistent menace to society by your very existance in it. I am personally not always a 3 strike fan, most people have some redeeming qualities if they chose to exercise those redeeming qualities...but I can assure you that it doesn't take 20/40/60 strikes before you are a menace to society by always refusing to partake of your good side and continuously making poor choices.
Lets focus on some creative thinking here:
1) We need to shore up prevention/treatment. Give those individuals who wish to either stay away or get away have the opportunity.
2) Effective supervision/probation on minor precursory offenses that do not result in lengthy jail and/or prison sentances.
3) Swift and severe sentances for those that are convicted of felony offenses.
4) Effective evaluation of those being released/paroled. Consider some system of halfway civil committment for extended periods for those severely troubled or the consistent menace to society type offenders. They can work, pay rent, and stay in group type facilities with curfews, etc with on site supervision. Violate and you go back...that simple. Do good for X months/years...then be released from this type of supervision level.
This is a situation that can't ever be solved, but we can get alot closer than we are.
Parole violations are just a tool for the state. The state keeps the revolving door running by tying itself to the criminals. The state retains the “option” of which parole violator gets to go back to prison. When you think of it this way, there is a lot of power there that rest in the hands of few people. Parole is a funny thing. The state has a lot of leeway on sentences and parole issues. A person can get a lot of time for a relatively lesser crime. The “trend” of the courts is followed, but they are not finite rules. An example is that Martha Stewart could have gotten a lengthy sentence, but she did not because of a trend to administer a lesser punishment. I believe that she got a light sentence so that the people wouldn’t take a hard look at how much leeway the courts have with sentencing. My point is that parole violations are insignificant. There are over 14,000 murders per year in this country. The system is so clogged with drug related crime it isn’t funny. There are almost 2 million drug arrests per year in the United States. Serious criminals are buried in an overall prison population of drug related offenders. The war on drugs is not a war. America can’t wage war on drugs and be addicted to them at the same time. The only fear I have about drugs is possible involvement of my children. I’m confident in my parenting skills that my kids won’t become addicted to drugs. As long as the drug laws continue to be enforced, the price of them will remain high, the users will need to get the money to buy them, and they’ll come knock you on the head to get the ten bucks in your pocket. Don’t enforce them, the price will drop and the drug addicts will have their drugs and you will not be looking for your lawn mower down at the pawn shop. There is no way that you can have a serious talk about parole violations when the system that administers the parole is so congested with criminals that no one cares about. As a whole, America can’t possibly care about drug offenders because Americans provide the market for drugs. The absolute last people who want to stop enforcing the drug laws are the people who make money on them. Getting drugs should be as easy and as costly as getting a cup of coffee. The true punishments of doing drugs are the drugs themselves. Once people get that through their head, then we can stop wasting time with dopers and concentrate on punishing murders, rapes, extortion, fraud, thefts, assaults, forgeries, robberies, burglaries, embezzlements, and fishing without a license.
There wouldn't be as many parole violations, if the government would reinstate the draft. Get these gang members in uniform and send them to Irac. They will either kill the enemy or each other. This will empty a lot of our jails and prisons, saving the tax payers a lot of money.