What do you think of the current trends in faith-based politics? Too Far? Not Far Enough?
23 Comments
Andrew said:
It is entirely unfair to everybody that is a non christian. Faith should not play a part of politics because I feel that it lowers the religious beliefs of everybody that is not. For my self I am Wiccan and I wouldn't mind seeing a change in politics. No disrepecting anyone of the other religion but that is completely bogus
George said:
A persons "faith" should be personal and is obviously no indicator of honesty or morality. Emphasis on "faith" misleads those of the Christian "faith" into believing that individual ethics or morality can be judged by classification rather than demonstration.
kris said:
What specifically is an "evangelical" Christian? An evangelist is one who preaches. What happened to the deivision of church and state? There is no one in power but what God has put them there for His purpose....everyone should just get on with their jobs! The voters have spoken...they want values and virtues in their leaders.
Rick Stowell said:
Religion and politics should remain separate. One's faith is personal and should not be legislated and imposed upon others who may not share the same beliefs. The Republican party has become synonymous with hyper-conservative religious zeal. By moving so far the right, their platform is becoming more and more irrelevent to more and more Americans. Restricting reproductive rights and marriage rights are attempts to legislate morality. Americans deserve the freedom to make choices for themselves rather than being guided by one groups religious agenda.
Kay said:
I was proud and relieved to see that America realized that religion and government don't mix. I worry if we go to far either way.
white buffalo said:
We will be punished, for not obeying
by: whitebuffalo321 11/15/06 07:38 pm EST
"International bankers of wars", will punish "Americans", for not allowing them to continue in their fascist, heresy, by stopping them from conducting a longer war. What will you, do about it? These "International bankers of wars" own us, and all that we percieve. These "International bankers of wars" are responsible for the destruction of many faiths, and even races, of human beings. Nations have repeatedly fallen, because, these bankers control, wicked false teaching. Right along with this wicked false teaching, lies everything we percieve, that might save us, but never has before. If there was ever a thing, that has been an "anti-christ" to humanity,it has been the "International bankers of wars". These bankers infiltrate and destroy from within, as a rule. In order to perpetuate what they have corruptly inherited, these past millinea. If there ever, was a "Devil", exerciseing power over humanity, he is what I tell you. I am telling you, that this "Devil" has a form in our world, and that form is a "war based economic system". I am also telling you, that "Armaggedon" is the war at the "end of times", for the "war based economic system". This "Beast" will die, as foretold by our ancients, and we are the generation to see, the "Beast of wars", physically die. One by one, we will organize against, or for, the perpetuation of the "war based economic system". Humanity, requires a resource based economic system. The obvious plan, for the only humans who could benefit from overpopulation, seems to seamlessly and marvalously co-incide with the plans of those, who knowingly created the circumstances that we have. Astoundingly, these same ones, will decide that it requires war, to reduce overpopulation. Put simply, the ones you have been listening to, are likely the ones, who are filling you with wicked false teaching. Or this set of circumstances, we call, "our reality", could not exist.
Let's do this,let's just identify, these "International bankers of wars", so we can keep better track of their behaviours. Unless, wars have, no bankers, no active promoters. Because,in this case, all of us are completely insane. If wars do have bankers, they are setting the stage for the destruction of Christianity, and the destruction of the United States of America. If wars, do have bankers,who do we blame? Who, do we punish. More destinctly though, who will do it? These, "International bankers of wars", murdered, the son of God, and infiltrated his church. Who will blame, and punish these, "International bankers of wars". Are we always bringing a knife to a gun fight, when dealing with these "International bankers of wars". Is it because, we cannot identify who they are, or because, we always come in too few numbers. A good man here, an honest man there, always operateing independently, seperated by borders,religions,languages and walls of bureaucrats, laws and rumors of laws. A bad man here, a dishonest man there,always operateing secretly,protected behind borders, religions,languages and walls of bureaucrats blindly willing to conduct wars and willing to spread rumors of wars. How dare you operate amongst us, unidentified, for millinea. Prepare yourself now for the day of judgement. For I am not alone, I come with many, and many more, behind myself. We fund ourselves with respect, and we respect ourselves, by consuming "The Beast", which is war. We do this by divideing it away from, "our" resources. The last war will be, no war. Every man and woman will be the heros, and remembered as the generation who made every man, woman and child into "Gods", manageing resources rather than, "Devils", manageing wars. Many will say, wars will always be among us. Tell them, that until there is a resource based economic system, you have no more, respect, to share with them. Its as simple as identifing them, and disrespecting them, in every way you can. The "Beast" will die and should die, don't you agree?
Jack said:
This is all silly. Politicians on both sides are just using 'faith' as a political talking point. It has nothing to do with their political stance in most cases.
What's really important is integrity, and both Republicans and Democrats have demonstrated they don't have much of that.
It's time to get politicians off the gravy train and have them join the rest of us in society instead of making them a 'ruling class' that has different benefits and accountability than the 'normal' citizens.
Alicia Judge said:
Our current president's religious beliefs have done nothing but alienate half the country. As for his "virtues" as a Born-Again Christian, I can't think of many non Born-Agains that would find it morally acceptable to kill America's soldiers for their own personal reasons. Religion and politics certainly go hand in hand in the sense that they are both used for personal gain but I hope our next president finds that as unGodly as I do.
Darla O'Malley said:
What has always made America great was the fact that we were free to worship or not worship in any way we wanted. Religion is and should be personal and the thought of our government imposing the religious values of their leaders on all of us is the most depressing thing I can think of. I definitely think that religion has absolutely no business in government whatsoever. The main reason we can't "give" democracy to other countries is because of their different religious beliefs. Too bad they don't all believe the way Bush wants them to believe but he can't change their religion when they've believed as they have for centuries. I think that's a no brainer.
Doug Salcedo said:
(1) Having a "faith" does not mean "Christian". An atheist has "faith" that there is no God. So let's not hammer Christians. The topic is relevant for any country, including those that are heavily influenced by Islam or Buddhism.
(2) A person's action's speak louder than their words. Calling yourself a Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist is a loose indicator of how one will act. It suggests a moral compass, but does not guarantee that your actions line up with your faith.
(3)Bottom Line For Me- Using faith as a bludgeon to get your way has gone too far. I do like candidates that express their faith and live according to it. That's called integrity and I can measure if they walk their talk. If you don't like the way they walk, then don't vote for them! But- to create a moral high ground to rule from is going too far.
(4) BTW- I am a Christian. I believe you love people to Christ, not judge or bludgeon them to it with a bible. If a person is going to be won over to any faith, it's because it makes their life make sense and gives it a purpose that overcomes the darkness of the world around them. You can't legislate that. You have to live it.
Liz said:
This country was founded on Christian concepts. The farther we have gotten away from these concepts the more unlawfulness and destruction and division has occured. I believe it is a time to get back to the basic beliefs. The morality of this country has worsened and I believe it is because we have forgotten what our forefathers practiced every day. I believe that our leaders have strayed from integrity and morality to the point it is difficult to believe anything they say.
C said:
Liz is wrong. The people who moved to the US from the old world did that because the were prosecuted because of their believes and wanted separation of state and church.
We should let people in other countries know that God doesn't just bless America, he blesses everyone. We should discourage religious intolerance and fanaticism -- starting with the fanaticism here at home, thus setting a good example for the rest of the world.
Brian from Tri-Cities said:
No, Liz is right. This country WAS founded on Christian principles. The vast majority of our founding fathers were Christians. Want proof? How about this? Of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787, 52 of them were active members of their churches, practicing Christians. That's something you'll never read about in your public school history books.
I close with a quote from George Washington. In his farewell address to Congress on September 19, 1796. He spoke these words, which still ring true today:
Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indespensible supports. In vain would that man claim the tibute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. the mere politician, especially with the pious man, ought to respect an dcherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions [sic] with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to teh influence of refined education on the minds of peculiar structure - - reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
Now, there's food for thought.
Charles said:
America was established on a Christian foundation with a tiny settlement of the Mayflower Pilgrims.
The Mayflower Compact the firest document of a unique form of government which was derived from the Bible principles.
"In the name of God, Amen. . .Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and the advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our king and country, ...by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into civil body-politic,...by virtue hereof enact, constitute, and frame such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, consitutions, offices, from time to time, as shall thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the Colony;"
This was the birth of popular constitutional liberty. It took 1,620 years for the appearing of Christian Liberty to be expressed magnificently in the Declaration of Independence.
The Constitution of the United States enshrines the kind of degree of individual liberty fund only in the Word of God; Representation, Self-government, Property, and Union- these are among the basic Biblical principles which found expression in the document.
Our republican form of government dates back to Churches of the New Testament. Leonard Bacon's Genesis of the law New England Churches, 1874:
"...there are indications that every space of beleivers in Christ was a little republic...The Churches instituted by the apostles were instituted only...Each local church was complete in itself, and was hold responsible to Christ for its own character, and the character of those whom it retained in its fellowship..."
This Republic is the "Republicanism of Christianity" we must be a God fearing, Christ-honoring nation. The warning has been sounded:
"The government of the United States is acknowledge by the wise and good of other nations, to be the most free, impatial and righteous government of the world, but all agree, that for such government to be sustained many years, the principle of truth and righteousness, taught in the Holy Scriptures, be practiced. The rulers must govern in the fear of God, and the people obey the laws." [Emma Willard, 1835]
"A general Dissolution of Principles and Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America than the whole Force of the common enemy. While the People are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their Liberties to the first external or internal invader..." [Samuel Adams, 1779]
The Founders pray for Guidance; in the mist of turbulence and confusion of the day, let us look back through the pages of our history to the days of Consitutional Convention when the Framers were struggling over this new form government. The day was June 17, 1787, when Benjamin Franklin rose to his feet in Independence Hall and addressed Geo. Washington:
"In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were, in the dark, to find political truth, and scarce able to distiguish it when it is presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of Lights to illuminate our understanding? ...That God governs in the affairs of men! And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground wihtout His notice, is it probable than an empire can rise without His aid? ...and I also believe, that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the building of Babel: That hencforth prayers, imploring the assistance of Heaven and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every mornning before we proceed to business".
Yes, I do think that we as an nation and individuals ought to be defending those principles that are laid down in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not be tearing them down.
Bob said:
Seperation of church and state, it's the law, shouldn't our politicians be up holding the law?
azorik vovin said:
If I remember my history correctly,(it seems some do not remember it at all),the separation of church and state was one of the issues that that helped in the inception of this nation,the freedom to worship as we want without it being part of the politcal institution,we have gone backwards.
rob said:
I believe that a country who has a leader with religious beliefs and faith has to answer to a higher calling than the american people. I for one want a leader who has to get on his knees and ask for direction. America was founded on those fleeing religious persecution to start a new country with religious foundations. The so called seperation of church and state is no where listed as a condition. It is one persons personal idea that has caught on to become "real" in some small minded peoples minds. We as a country need to cling to our God in these troubled times for safety for ourselves and our country. Beware the desert dogs that are nipping at our heels ready to topple our great country and her not so vigalent people.
Brian from Tri-Cities said:
What I quoted from in my earlier post and what Charles quoted from in his post ARE a part of our history. The problem is that many of our modern day historians have attempted to "rewrite history" so that the average person studying our history has no idea that our country was founded on Christian principles, unless he/she reads the actual writings of our founding fathers.
robert said:
with all this talk about seperation of church and state, can someone actually show me this in the constitution or the bill of rights!! It does not exist. Please look up your beliefs to see if they are real or not before you speak what you don't know about. Praise God for this great country
Charles,Oak Harbor said:
The Framers indented that the "speration of church and state" clause meant, Government will not officially recognized or give support to an religion as an NATIONAL institution, not that the Church [assembly of people] coundn't intervene in pollitics.
James Madison in 1811, veto vote on spending money to pay for a chaplian in Congress. He said:
"The appropriation of funds of the United States for the use and support of religious societies, [is] contrary to the airticle of the Constitution which declares that Congress shall make no law repection a religious etablishment."
In the Annals of Congress in 1789, James Madison stated, "Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, or compel men to worship God in any manner contrary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combine together, and establish a religion to which they would compel no law conform."
There is nothing he said that Christians are not to get evolved in government, just that government isn't supposed to establish a STATE RELIGION.
david said:
I'm sorry, but whether or not the Mayflower folk were a branch of Christianity is irrelevant to this question. They were not even the first settlers. 1776 is all that is relevant, as that is when the Constitution was born and along with it America as we know it.. And nowhere in the Constituion is religion, God, or Christianity mentioned except to forbid the passage of any laws about religion. Indeed, in the treaty of Tripoly (1797, under Washington, signed by Adams, approved by Congress, article 11, originaldocument here), it is expressly stated that America is NOT a Christian nation, it is a secular one.
Debra G. said:
What part of "SEPARATION of CHURCH and STATE" do people not understand...????? It's not exactly a difficult concept, gang.
Religion has NO place in our government (or on our currency, for that matter); our government has NO business in religion. Personal religious beliefs are just that: PERSONAL. And they are best left that way.
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It is entirely unfair to everybody that is a non christian. Faith should not play a part of politics because I feel that it lowers the religious beliefs of everybody that is not. For my self I am Wiccan and I wouldn't mind seeing a change in politics. No disrepecting anyone of the other religion but that is completely bogus
A persons "faith" should be personal and is obviously no indicator of honesty or morality. Emphasis on "faith" misleads those of the Christian "faith" into believing that individual ethics or morality can be judged by classification rather than demonstration.
What specifically is an "evangelical" Christian? An evangelist is one who preaches. What happened to the deivision of church and state? There is no one in power but what God has put them there for His purpose....everyone should just get on with their jobs! The voters have spoken...they want values and virtues in their leaders.
Religion and politics should remain separate. One's faith is personal and should not be legislated and imposed upon others who may not share the same beliefs. The Republican party has become synonymous with hyper-conservative religious zeal. By moving so far the right, their platform is becoming more and more irrelevent to more and more Americans. Restricting reproductive rights and marriage rights are attempts to legislate morality. Americans deserve the freedom to make choices for themselves rather than being guided by one groups religious agenda.
I was proud and relieved to see that America realized that religion and government don't mix. I worry if we go to far either way.
We will be punished, for not obeying
by: whitebuffalo321 11/15/06 07:38 pm EST
"International bankers of wars", will punish "Americans", for not allowing them to continue in their fascist, heresy, by stopping them from conducting a longer war. What will you, do about it? These "International bankers of wars" own us, and all that we percieve. These "International bankers of wars" are responsible for the destruction of many faiths, and even races, of human beings. Nations have repeatedly fallen, because, these bankers control, wicked false teaching. Right along with this wicked false teaching, lies everything we percieve, that might save us, but never has before. If there was ever a thing, that has been an "anti-christ" to humanity,it has been the "International bankers of wars". These bankers infiltrate and destroy from within, as a rule. In order to perpetuate what they have corruptly inherited, these past millinea. If there ever, was a "Devil", exerciseing power over humanity, he is what I tell you. I am telling you, that this "Devil" has a form in our world, and that form is a "war based economic system". I am also telling you, that "Armaggedon" is the war at the "end of times", for the "war based economic system". This "Beast" will die, as foretold by our ancients, and we are the generation to see, the "Beast of wars", physically die. One by one, we will organize against, or for, the perpetuation of the "war based economic system". Humanity, requires a resource based economic system. The obvious plan, for the only humans who could benefit from overpopulation, seems to seamlessly and marvalously co-incide with the plans of those, who knowingly created the circumstances that we have. Astoundingly, these same ones, will decide that it requires war, to reduce overpopulation. Put simply, the ones you have been listening to, are likely the ones, who are filling you with wicked false teaching. Or this set of circumstances, we call, "our reality", could not exist.
Let's do this,let's just identify, these "International bankers of wars", so we can keep better track of their behaviours. Unless, wars have, no bankers, no active promoters. Because,in this case, all of us are completely insane. If wars do have bankers, they are setting the stage for the destruction of Christianity, and the destruction of the United States of America. If wars, do have bankers,who do we blame? Who, do we punish. More destinctly though, who will do it? These, "International bankers of wars", murdered, the son of God, and infiltrated his church. Who will blame, and punish these, "International bankers of wars". Are we always bringing a knife to a gun fight, when dealing with these "International bankers of wars". Is it because, we cannot identify who they are, or because, we always come in too few numbers. A good man here, an honest man there, always operateing independently, seperated by borders,religions,languages and walls of bureaucrats, laws and rumors of laws. A bad man here, a dishonest man there,always operateing secretly,protected behind borders, religions,languages and walls of bureaucrats blindly willing to conduct wars and willing to spread rumors of wars. How dare you operate amongst us, unidentified, for millinea. Prepare yourself now for the day of judgement. For I am not alone, I come with many, and many more, behind myself. We fund ourselves with respect, and we respect ourselves, by consuming "The Beast", which is war. We do this by divideing it away from, "our" resources. The last war will be, no war. Every man and woman will be the heros, and remembered as the generation who made every man, woman and child into "Gods", manageing resources rather than, "Devils", manageing wars. Many will say, wars will always be among us. Tell them, that until there is a resource based economic system, you have no more, respect, to share with them. Its as simple as identifing them, and disrespecting them, in every way you can. The "Beast" will die and should die, don't you agree?
This is all silly. Politicians on both sides are just using 'faith' as a political talking point. It has nothing to do with their political stance in most cases.
What's really important is integrity, and both Republicans and Democrats have demonstrated they don't have much of that.
It's time to get politicians off the gravy train and have them join the rest of us in society instead of making them a 'ruling class' that has different benefits and accountability than the 'normal' citizens.
Our current president's religious beliefs have done nothing but alienate half the country. As for his "virtues" as a Born-Again Christian, I can't think of many non Born-Agains that would find it morally acceptable to kill America's soldiers for their own personal reasons. Religion and politics certainly go hand in hand in the sense that they are both used for personal gain but I hope our next president finds that as unGodly as I do.
What has always made America great was the fact that we were free to worship or not worship in any way we wanted. Religion is and should be personal and the thought of our government imposing the religious values of their leaders on all of us is the most depressing thing I can think of. I definitely think that religion has absolutely no business in government whatsoever. The main reason we can't "give" democracy to other countries is because of their different religious beliefs. Too bad they don't all believe the way Bush wants them to believe but he can't change their religion when they've believed as they have for centuries. I think that's a no brainer.
(1) Having a "faith" does not mean "Christian". An atheist has "faith" that there is no God. So let's not hammer Christians. The topic is relevant for any country, including those that are heavily influenced by Islam or Buddhism.
(2) A person's action's speak louder than their words. Calling yourself a Christian, Muslim, or Buddhist is a loose indicator of how one will act. It suggests a moral compass, but does not guarantee that your actions line up with your faith.
(3)Bottom Line For Me- Using faith as a bludgeon to get your way has gone too far. I do like candidates that express their faith and live according to it. That's called integrity and I can measure if they walk their talk. If you don't like the way they walk, then don't vote for them! But- to create a moral high ground to rule from is going too far.
(4) BTW- I am a Christian. I believe you love people to Christ, not judge or bludgeon them to it with a bible. If a person is going to be won over to any faith, it's because it makes their life make sense and gives it a purpose that overcomes the darkness of the world around them. You can't legislate that. You have to live it.
This country was founded on Christian concepts. The farther we have gotten away from these concepts the more unlawfulness and destruction and division has occured. I believe it is a time to get back to the basic beliefs. The morality of this country has worsened and I believe it is because we have forgotten what our forefathers practiced every day. I believe that our leaders have strayed from integrity and morality to the point it is difficult to believe anything they say.
Liz is wrong. The people who moved to the US from the old world did that because the were prosecuted because of their believes and wanted separation of state and church.
We should let people in other countries know that God doesn't just bless America, he blesses everyone. We should discourage religious intolerance and fanaticism -- starting with the fanaticism here at home, thus setting a good example for the rest of the world.
No, Liz is right. This country WAS founded on Christian principles. The vast majority of our founding fathers were Christians. Want proof? How about this? Of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787, 52 of them were active members of their churches, practicing Christians. That's something you'll never read about in your public school history books.
I close with a quote from George Washington. In his farewell address to Congress on September 19, 1796. He spoke these words, which still ring true today:
Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indespensible supports. In vain would that man claim the tibute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. the mere politician, especially with the pious man, ought to respect an dcherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions [sic] with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to teh influence of refined education on the minds of peculiar structure - - reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
Now, there's food for thought.
America was established on a Christian foundation with a tiny settlement of the Mayflower Pilgrims.
The Mayflower Compact the firest document of a unique form of government which was derived from the Bible principles.
"In the name of God, Amen. . .Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and the advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our king and country, ...by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into civil body-politic,...by virtue hereof enact, constitute, and frame such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, consitutions, offices, from time to time, as shall thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the Colony;"
This was the birth of popular constitutional liberty. It took 1,620 years for the appearing of Christian Liberty to be expressed magnificently in the Declaration of Independence.
The Constitution of the United States enshrines the kind of degree of individual liberty fund only in the Word of God; Representation, Self-government, Property, and Union- these are among the basic Biblical principles which found expression in the document.
Our republican form of government dates back to Churches of the New Testament. Leonard Bacon's Genesis of the law New England Churches, 1874:
"...there are indications that every space of beleivers in Christ was a little republic...The Churches instituted by the apostles were instituted only...Each local church was complete in itself, and was hold responsible to Christ for its own character, and the character of those whom it retained in its fellowship..."
This Republic is the "Republicanism of Christianity" we must be a God fearing, Christ-honoring nation. The warning has been sounded:
"The government of the United States is acknowledge by the wise and good of other nations, to be the most free, impatial and righteous government of the world, but all agree, that for such government to be sustained many years, the principle of truth and righteousness, taught in the Holy Scriptures, be practiced. The rulers must govern in the fear of God, and the people obey the laws." [Emma Willard, 1835]
"A general Dissolution of Principles and Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America than the whole Force of the common enemy. While the People are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their Liberties to the first external or internal invader..." [Samuel Adams, 1779]
The Founders pray for Guidance; in the mist of turbulence and confusion of the day, let us look back through the pages of our history to the days of Consitutional Convention when the Framers were struggling over this new form government. The day was June 17, 1787, when Benjamin Franklin rose to his feet in Independence Hall and addressed Geo. Washington:
"In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were, in the dark, to find political truth, and scarce able to distiguish it when it is presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of Lights to illuminate our understanding? ...That God governs in the affairs of men! And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground wihtout His notice, is it probable than an empire can rise without His aid? ...and I also believe, that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the building of Babel: That hencforth prayers, imploring the assistance of Heaven and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every mornning before we proceed to business".
Yes, I do think that we as an nation and individuals ought to be defending those principles that are laid down in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not be tearing them down.
Seperation of church and state, it's the law, shouldn't our politicians be up holding the law?
If I remember my history correctly,(it seems some do not remember it at all),the separation of church and state was one of the issues that that helped in the inception of this nation,the freedom to worship as we want without it being part of the politcal institution,we have gone backwards.
I believe that a country who has a leader with religious beliefs and faith has to answer to a higher calling than the american people. I for one want a leader who has to get on his knees and ask for direction. America was founded on those fleeing religious persecution to start a new country with religious foundations. The so called seperation of church and state is no where listed as a condition. It is one persons personal idea that has caught on to become "real" in some small minded peoples minds. We as a country need to cling to our God in these troubled times for safety for ourselves and our country. Beware the desert dogs that are nipping at our heels ready to topple our great country and her not so vigalent people.
What I quoted from in my earlier post and what Charles quoted from in his post ARE a part of our history. The problem is that many of our modern day historians have attempted to "rewrite history" so that the average person studying our history has no idea that our country was founded on Christian principles, unless he/she reads the actual writings of our founding fathers.
with all this talk about seperation of church and state, can someone actually show me this in the constitution or the bill of rights!! It does not exist. Please look up your beliefs to see if they are real or not before you speak what you don't know about. Praise God for this great country
The Framers indented that the "speration of church and state" clause meant, Government will not officially recognized or give support to an religion as an NATIONAL institution, not that the Church [assembly of people] coundn't intervene in pollitics.
James Madison in 1811, veto vote on spending money to pay for a chaplian in Congress. He said:
"The appropriation of funds of the United States for the use and support of religious societies, [is] contrary to the airticle of the Constitution which declares that Congress shall make no law repection a religious etablishment."
In the Annals of Congress in 1789, James Madison stated, "Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, or compel men to worship God in any manner contrary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combine together, and establish a religion to which they would compel no law conform."
There is nothing he said that Christians are not to get evolved in government, just that government isn't supposed to establish a STATE RELIGION.
I'm sorry, but whether or not the Mayflower folk were a branch of Christianity is irrelevant to this question. They were not even the first settlers. 1776 is all that is relevant, as that is when the Constitution was born and along with it America as we know it.. And nowhere in the Constituion is religion, God, or Christianity mentioned except to forbid the passage of any laws about religion. Indeed, in the treaty of Tripoly (1797, under Washington, signed by Adams, approved by Congress, article 11, originaldocument here), it is expressly stated that America is NOT a Christian nation, it is a secular one.
What part of "SEPARATION of CHURCH and STATE" do people not understand...????? It's not exactly a difficult concept, gang.
Religion has NO place in our government (or on our currency, for that matter); our government has NO business in religion. Personal religious beliefs are just that: PERSONAL. And they are best left that way.
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